School uniform rules - disregard or not?

[anonymoususer9876]

On the Style and Beauty page is a discussion about a 12 yr old girl wearing mascara to school. A number of posters argued that school rules were ridiculous and that mascara doesn’t interfere with learning and therefore they would not enforce school rules on their children.

Having watched the news this morning about Prince George and Eton and the uniform rules there, I wondered if parents who disagreed with state school rules would feel differently if their child was given a sponsored all expenses place at a prestigious private school where there were fantastic work opportunities on leaving the school.

So, would it make a difference?
Would you accept the place at the prestigious school and obey strict uniform rules if it meant opportunities for your child?

I do.

Super selective girls grammar for dd and the uniform is ridiculous and very expensive. We also make other comprises like driving her 35 mins there and back.

But it was that, or the failing comps in the hellhole we live in. I don’t want her to end up like me, having to live here, so we suck it all up and follow all their rules, some of which we just fucking daft (only navy blue umbrellas are allowed, only navy blue or black hair bobbles, only ankle socks allowed, black pencil cases only - there’s so much more).

A huge percentage of girls go onto great universities and do so well. We ended up here through some poor life choices and I want more for her.

It’s the only grammar school within an hour. So we didn’t have a choice. It’s the school rules or don’t go there.

It's not really equivalent because parents sending their children to state school have limited or no choice about which state school is allocated and what uniform rules it might have.

Parents sending their children to private school have full choice (within their budget) of school and consequently could reject a school if they were sufficiently unhappy with the dress policy.

I will facilitate my DC to follow all the school rules, e.g. buying them the correct colour coat, socks, hairbands. (First time I've heard of umbrellas needing to be in school colours @Helpmyarse !)

If they choose to break rules I consider minor e.g. length of socks, hairband colour, wearing mascara, I will tell them they take the risk and have to deal with any consequences. I would get involved if it became a repeated issue but not if they were getting away with it. Saying that my DC are very rule abiding at the moment.

Mine have correct uniform. I have warned them again bc and again that if they get detention for rolling their skirts ridiculously short then that’s their problem to deal with.

Pretty tedious to disregard school uniform rules for no real reason, what are these parents teaching their children? Its ok to ignore rules because you just don’t fancy complying- great life lesson, slow hand clap. Teachers have enough to deal with!

In your thought experiment what are the consequences of breaking the ridiculous uniform rules at the all expenses-paid private school?

For example if my DD was in this private school, would she face a low level consequence (telling off, detention etc) for wearing mascara? Or would she be expelled? I'd quite like her to have an old boys network to draw on, more opportunities etc so would encourage her to conform if she was at risk of getting the sack.

But short of that, I couldn't give a monkeys if she wore illegal coloured hair bobbles, socks that were an inch too long, or if she chose to mascara her arm hair. Low level rebellion is very normal and healthy for teenagers. And suffering the (low level) consequences of their low level rebellion is also very important for them. School is about more than learning the acedemeic subjects, it's also about growing from a child following their mothers rules, to an individual capable of making their own choices, advocating for themselves respectfully, accepting responsibility, and developing resilience to (just or unjust) setbacks.

I’m not looking for equivalence though.

Initially, it is just a reminder to not wear mascara ( or other uniform infringement). Girls are asked to correct the issue ie take off mascara using a remover kept in the school office.
If they refuse, or it repeats, then it becomes a behaviour issue where pupil is refusing to follow staff directions and is seen as defiance. Parents are informed and expected to support the school in its uniform policy.
If parents refuse to support the school, then you could be asked to leave the school.

(AI tells me this would be a possible outcome for Cheltenham Ladies College - I have no idea if actually true as it’s AI generated!)

As long as the rules were applied fairly to all children, across both sexes, then yes.

If they were forced to think a certain way, then I would withdraw them... But wearing the same clothes as everyone else? Meh. Crack on and jfdi.

I'd be indifferent up until things became serious, however I would imagine that my DD would conform anyway once things escalated to detention levels because she doesn't want to miss after school clubs/ her free time.

But this is treating school rules as if there's no staff discretion. For example, no school is going to want to exclude a pupil who excells, but wears mascara. Students who are on track for 8s or 9s can get away with much more than those who will scrape a 5. Teachers don't always behave fairly and good exam results reflect well on the school far more a girl's dark eyelashes detract from it

My dc knew that if they got detentions for uniform infringements they would be getting additional punishment at home because you do not break rules, even ones you don’t agree with! Dd1 never got a uniform infringement detention, dd2 got one, never made that mistake again

I work in a similar way. And it is a private school. I make sure that have all the required uniform but as they have got older I don’t argue with them about little things like sock colour and mascara. That being said their school is not particularly draconian and minor uniform infringements are rarely even noticed. My children are also pretty rule abiding also and prefer a natural beauty look. So make up is minimal etc.
If they get caught out wearing the wrong thing then the consequences are theirs to deal with.

And I would support school if they chose to make an issue out of it.

Completely agree.
I was added to a yr 7 parents WhatsApp group last week ( don’t get me started on that!!) and on the first day it was full of parents complaining that their child had been pulled up for having incorrect uniform while simultaneously saying they’d purposefully bought incorrect items because ‘that’s how it was for my older child/ren’ and was fine for them.
Ignoring the fact there’s a new head teacher and completely new uniform rules!!

Needless to say I left that group pretty quickly 😂

One of the worst if not the worst rule breaker in recent times went to Eton. So an expensive education does not necessarily mean following rules.

In that case it would be the same rules as they are at DD’s state school. A reminder would 99% be enough anyway, as she hates being in trouble. If she gets detentions, her consequences to deal with . Preferably it would be after school as that would really make her life hard. Again, that should be more than enough for a kid that hasn’t got a detention (for lack of equipment) since y7. If it got so bad that the school has to involve us, then whether I agree with the rules or not , there will be consequences at home too.

I went to a private school with a fairly draconian set of rules. I followed the ones I wanted to follow, and challenged the ones I thought were arbitrary - but not by breaking them, by challenging them. There was one notable instance in y10 where I may have brought a copy of the ECHR to a meeting with my headmistress….

Thats the sort of rebellion I’m ok with. Not ‘fuck you I won’t do what you tell me’ (although for teenagers that’s a tale as old as time). But petitioning, lobbying, challenging logic. I was largely unsuccessful (which is probably good prep for adult life). But you can challenge rules without breaking them.