Aibu feeling uneasy about men taking little girls to the toilet in the womens toilet?

[Fasdmama]

I've seen this a few times and I dont know what is the right thing to do.
So the other week we were at the cinema. I took my daughter to the toilet and as I was waiting for her a man came out of a cubicle with a little girl and went to wash her hands.
It got me thinking.
I feel uncomfortable a man in the womens toilet. I understand how you'd potentially feel uncomfortable taking a daughter into the mens toilets.
And the only other option in this situation was the disabled toilet but morally thats wrong.

I dont know what I feel is right in this situation so wanted to know other people's opinions.
So yabu: its right for a man to take girl into female toilets
Yanbu: he should take her somewhere else...but where?

That I can agree with. It's not acceptable to have to take a grown man with SEN into a women's toilets. But to be honest I'm coming to that from his perspective. That it's not something that he'd want. Not because his needs trump anyone else's, but because he may be less able to adapt and be flexible towards others. Hence why more changing places toilets are needed.

It seems that you have a far more in depth knowledge of what men do in the male toilets than I.

School starts at 4. Don’t think I’d be cool with my 4 year old being on her own in a public place with no eyes on her and the capability of being locked in somewhere, but maybe that’s just me 🤷🏼‍♀️.

Anyway, I’m not looking to enter a debate, you’re allowed to have your opinion and I’m allowed to have mine.

The point was that people seem to think that a child going into the men’s with her father is going to see penises all over the place and are using that to justify a man going into the ladies

But he wouldn’t be in danger in the same way that women could potentially be (from any man).

I don’t see an issue with a dad taking a (suitably aged young) girl into ladies, just giving a shout out first to say dad with child type thing, and would far rather that then a little girl have to go into a men’s toilet which are gross, have men ultimately exposing themselves at a urinal (at the level of a child to be at the same level as this), and think the type to be taking his daughter to the ladies bathroom is far less likely to be a creep than the general male population in men’s loos being creepy around a young girl 🤷‍♀️ Also not using disabled unless you / child actually have a disability - that is what they are there for.

It's totally fine of course - I'd much rather my little girl was brought to the ladies than the gents when out and about with her Dad. All this talk of making sure she looks at the ground in the gents is silly. There are cubicles for gods sake

Yeah he would, so again that's the dilemma that mother's of SEN son's face after the son becomes of a certain age. Fear that they're too vulnerable to go into the mens toilet alone, not wishing to take them into the women's. and being totally reliant on having access to a disabled toilet. Which is why lots of people feel so strongly that any old Tom, Dick or Harry shouldn't be using toilets solely dedicated for disabled people.

Again, she’s not likely to see anything unless someone is deliberately exposing themselves.

Why would you assume a father is less likely to be creepy? You know most harm is done to children by people in their own family or family friends?

All it shows is that he either doesn’t care about making other women and girls uncomfortable potentially or he hasn’t bothered to think that might be the case.

I agree completely about the disabled toilet.

I mean the young man wouldn’t be in danger in a women’s toilet in the same way that a woman could be in danger from a man being in there.

I understand it’s a dilemma but not one that can be solved by making women and girls accommodate it. Again perhaps people need to campaign for
more disabled toilets and also deal with the issue of non disabled people using them

I'd argue that the men with SEN I know are far more vulnerable and at risk than any woman that encounters a father taking their daughter to the toilet.

Seriously, he's meant to go to
the men's

This is bringing to mind the Mark Twain quote " Never argue with stupid people............. "

There's only one kind of man who will go into a women's toilet, regardless of the reason he may give 🤷‍♀️

It wouldn’t bother me, I’d rather a little girl come into the women’s than the mens, having to see men peeing in urinals. I dunno about anyone else but I use a locked cubicle to do my business so my privacy wouldn’t be at stake. A man with his little girl is highly unlikely to be a danger to anyone.

So what should he do if it’s him that needs the loo? Would you still be comfortable with him using the ladies?

Why does it make you think men would be creepy around a young girl accompanied by her dad? Why can’t he shout “heads up girl coming in” into the men’s? That would give any men who may feel uncomfortable time to zip up etc. I mean, if he’s shouting it in the ladies, he can shout it in the men’s.

What abput male childcare workers, youth workers, sport coaches, teachers stc?
Is it oke for them to be in the ladies, with female chuldren alone?

1. how do you know men’s loos are gross unless you regularly enter them? I have never been in a men’s loo so wouldn’t have a clue. I expect the general grossness depends on the venue and their cleaning schedule surely? Or are you saying Your home toilet if disgusting (if you have a male partner?) as all men are disgusting in the loos?
2. even if they are gross, why do people keep saying it is awful for little girls to go in because of this but somehow it’s ok for little boys? Is this not implicit gender stereotyping? Little girls are super delicate and couldn’t cope with a bit of wee on the floor but little boys would be fine.
3. why do people think men are exposing themselves at urinals- my understanding (never seen personally) is that they have their backs to anyone walking past so any child wouldn’t see anything and in any event dad could put his hands over a child’s eyes if he was worried and guide them to the toilet.
4. why would it be ok for little boys to be exposed to men ‘exposing themselves’?

I believe the sex segregation is meant to keep opposite sex adults apart from each other. Young children accompanied by a parent are permitted.

Not all needs for the female toilet happen within a locked cubicle though. So no male people above about 8 years old should be in there.

Of course, it is not acceptable either from a consent aspect because one female person cannot give consent on behalf of other female people. Just because you, a general you, don’t have a problem and give consent doesn’t mean a person who also is in there or comes in just after also consents to that male person’s presence.

Sorry I haven't replied earlier.
To add some context. There is one disabled toilet that is a changing places toilet. Because of radar keys being misused the cinema made the decision that you had to ask for the toilet to be opened. So I dont think the man would have thought to have used it.
I agree that a family bathroom would be the right thing. In the shopping centre near us we have one of those and the cubicles are big enough for am adult and a child or an adult, child amd pram.
I think its morally wrong to use the disabled toilet (as some people have criticised me for saying) because its not an "accesibility" toilet its a disabled toilet for people with any kind of disability, physical or invisible. There may be nobody in it at the time you go in but there could be a disabled person needing to go when you are in there. As a carer for young people with complex needs I completly see it from this point.
For myself I feel very uneasy because of being sa'd. To be in an area where I sit without underwear (I understand in am enclosed cubicle) and then to come out and a man is in the area it shook me up a bit. It may not make sense to others but its how I felt. That is why I posted to see if I was being unreasonable. Interesting the vote was completly even at 50%!

How many men have you seen in the ladies with little girls ? I’ve never seen it once . Just asked a couple of colleagues in their 50s they have never ever seen this either. Can you explain why this is given the numbers of men walking around in public with children every day , something we have all seen ?

I come across dads with their daughters in the female single sex toilets at least once a year in the UK. I have not noticed this in other countries.

Ive seen it twice. Once in Denmark, once at an airport.

Child in Denmark had a nose bleed. Both parents dealing.
One at airport had been sick and male family member was bringing a change of clothes.

So actual emergencies.

Not sure how a man with SEN in a ladies toilet would be more vulnerable than a woman, but okay.

I live in London and I have not seen it did emergencies, I have seen it for general use.