to think what's the point of being married??

[scottishmum007]

I'm married myself but really living in sin would have been a lot cheaper (no wedding fees to pay for). The only people that profit from a couple saying I Do are the Government really.Anyone else thought of this before?
Besides the obvious reasons for getting married ('we love each other') is there really any incentives to tying the knot?? financially the government are raking it in, with all us saps paying the fees to marry. What don't we get an allowance for being married couples anymore?? we used to...

Just spoken to DH on the phone and he said a few of his workmates got married for the tax benefits and no other reasons, that was over 10 years ago (besides the obvious emotive ones).
I'm sure this is why there's been a decline in people tying the knot, or what looks like an increase in couples cohabiting.

Unless there has been a new statute in last six months without me noticing, i am sure of my facts.

It really isn't complicated. you're the father, you want a relationship with your child, the courts will do all that they can to ensure you get one - unless you are a drug addict, very violent etc. if the courts fail to do that, it is a clear breach of Article 8.

PR is a complete red herring. It causes loads of upset to mothers who think it gives fathers the right to dictate how they parent. it does nothing of the kind.

Its a nonsense. to anyone who is thinking of getting married for 'pr' - don't bother.

I got married for a number of reasons, primarily because I felt it was right for me to be married before our baby was born but also because my DH is Australian and it is still easier for immigration and nationality purposes to be married than cohabiting.
My DH was less in a hurry to get married but he saw the force of my reasons and as he wants us to move to Australia he was happy to go along with it. (yes, really)

Marriage is a legal contract that confers rights and responsibilities upon spouses. Whether you think those rights and responsibilities are advantages or disadvantages is a matter for personal interpretation - but bear thinking about very carefully indeed before you decide whether or not to "tie the knot".

AFAIK, the only reason to get married - if you have wills, parental responsiblity orders (for children born before automatic parental responsiblity was granted to the father) and you are economically independent - is the small but significant amount of cash you get as a widowed parent.

I might do it for that reason, but I really don't like the idea much.

thumbwitch, i had to push the issue aswell (wanted kids). most men aren't really bothered about marriage from what I've heard from others, they just go along with it to keep us women happy! it makes no difference to them if they have a ring on their finger or not, but it does to a woman.
it's been an interesting discussion today. nice to hear various points of view.

"dh and his workmate somehow think that cohabiting and married couples both have equal rights. not sure where they are getting this from. "
Scottish law may be different from English

In England if people marry and the house stays in the man's name and the woman is at home bringing up the children then when they split there is no automatic sharing whatsoever of the family home, any rented flats, any investments. Nor is there any claim for payments to support an ex spouse. There is child maintenacne to pay for the parent who doesn't live with the children and anything held in joint names is split in the percentages you have agreed but that is it. A vast legal difference between living in sin and marriage but people don't really understand that or the richer of the couple (usually the man) likes to con the woman into thinking the ring means nothing legally.

thanks Xenia, that's another point of view I hadn't considered. I am not 100% sure what all the differences are in Scots law, hven't really looked that far into it. I would imagine there are subtle differences in english and scots law when it comes to cohabiting and marriage.
dh still thinks that common law man and wife exists!!! wht planet is he on! (we aren't one of these couples that agree on everything.)

The Government has thankfully just abandoned a plan to give cohabiting couples similar rights to married couples on divorce.

www.oneplusone.org.uk/marriedornot/ gives the differences between Scottish and English law.

As for the male opinion, I just asked DH why he chose to get married. He replied, "Why not?"

Marriage was very important to me, but not for religious or traditional reasons. When we got married, we legally joined ourselves together. I am DH's next of kin, and he is mine. If DH was every imprisoned (unlikely!) or hospitalised his family couldn't keep me away. I will make all the decisions on his care/finances when he is unable to, and he will for me. We are financially linked and can move our money between ourselves to our best advantage.
If co-habiting couples automatically had the same rights, then DH would have had a dreadful job getting out of the relationship before ours, where they lived together for convenience, drove each other bonkers, and didn't split up for the sole reason that they were too lazy. When would those rights start? After a day, a week, a year? I would hate for the government to decide when our relationship was "official". By having a choice to get married we were the ones to decide.

there are many reasons why i think being married is a good thing. quite apart from the being in love and wanting to be together & have kids type stuff there are many practicle reasons, anybody who has followed my threads will know that my husband steve died almost 3 weeks ago after a long struggle with a brain tumour.
things have got quite nasty will the in-laws and i know that if we hadn't been married, if i hadn't been next of kin then despite our many years together, dispite me being the one caring for steve his mother would have been the one to make all the decisions and me and the kids wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
the paperwork is a nightmare Steve didn't make a will so that makes things harder, things would have been even harder had we not been married.
so get married and make a will.

To me having a child together is much more of a commitment to being married or owning a house. You can sell a house/get out of a mortgage or get divorced. Being married can last days, months or years. Having a mortgage could be a year or 25. Having a child is for life and in my personal view, is much more of a commitment and statement of your love together than a piece of paper....

Not every dad (or indeed mum) thinks of kids as a committment sadly.

Re parental responsibility - after seeing a thread on here I sorted out a parental responsibility agreement - downloaded the forms, got them signed and witnessed and off to registrars with a cheque for £17 - much easier than getting married!

Even in Scotland co-habiters don't have the same automatic rights - I don't think that marriage with cohabitation ond repute is recognised much here these days. We've covered ourselves as much as we can - with house in both names, survivorship clauses, eahc other named as beneficiaries for death benefits etc. If one of us dies it would be much simpler if we were married - but at the minute it all seems too much hassle - unless we can pop into registrars between library nad shops on a Saturday morning...

Not every dad (or indeed mum) thinks of kids as a committment sadly.

Re parental responsibility - after seeing a thread on here I sorted out a parental responsibility agreement - downloaded the forms, got them signed and witnessed and off to registrars with a cheque for £17 - much easier than getting married!

Even in Scotland co-habiters don't have the same automatic rights - I don't think that marriage with cohabitation ond repute is recognised much here these days. We've covered ourselves as much as we can - with house in both names, survivorship clauses, eahc other named as beneficiaries for death benefits etc. If one of us dies it would be much simpler if we were married - but at the minute it all seems too much hassle - unless we can pop into registrars between library nad shops on a Saturday morning...

Standing up in front of mates and family (or witnesses) and saying out loud that you are comitting to the other person for the rest of your life, to be faithful loving etc etc certainly sorts the men from the boys relationship-wise.

I bet there are a lot of people out there with shared mortgages and kids who would still baulk (sp) at making a public declaration of commitment.

Kids often come by accident. People move in together as it makes financial sense. Marriage is something that you don't usually just drift into.

A father's interests are protected these days by the change of law. You are only talking about children over 5.

Simply marrying the mother of a child you already have is not enough to gain PR if the child is older than 5 is not enough to get it, it is possible to get though, as you say, through a court order.

The husband of a married woman who names another man on the birth certificate also has PR. That is what I was referring to.

Spero, you used the word that really pees me off (not in the way you used it) when it comes to PR: "Rights"! Why do people think they have any "rights" over their children? My OH's family annoy me because they go on about his "rights" with his children and how he should be fighting for his "rights". Yes, he should be fighting, but for their "rights".

I would hate for the government to decide when our relationship was "official". By having a choice to get married we were the ones to decide.

I think that's an absolutely brilliant point.

Well, you are of course entitled to think what you like OP , however there are sound financial reasons for being married. Yorkiegirl started a thread many moons ago about it.

I am glad the Government has decided against the change too. Plenty of people choose not to marry so that those legal rights don't kick in. They did have concerns though about legions of unmarried women living in sin with children who gave up work 20 years ago and have nothing in their name, who then split and they can't claim maintenance from their man nor have a share of assets in his name. My view is the state is not there as a protective big brother and if people want to behave like idiots they make their own bed.

onlyj, that sounds very hard. I know someone whose wife when dying didn't entirely trust him and she had a will and put all her money in trust to be used for the private education of the children, her husband can't touch it and the grandmother and the sister who wanted the children to live with her after death control that money. Difficult situation.

As for people without wills at the very least buy a form in WHS smith and write one. If you don't did you know the state decides who gets your money in certain set proportions (and an unmarried partner gets nothing)

I was expecting it to be a man who would moan about getting married not a woman.
People say its just a bit of paper, but that bit of paper gives the woman and the children LEGAL protection if the woman OR the man dies.
Weddings don't have to cost much, we did ours for less than £2000 with a pub lunch on a Friday, nothing wrong in that.
Any man who moans about it is denying their familly SECURITY, any woman who moans about it should open their eyes.
The government is at fault as they should PAY people to get married, but pigs might fly.

Marriage keeps people together better than children do -- 50% of cohabiting couples split up before their child reaches 5 years old, as opposed to just 8% of married couples.

I see absolutely no reason for the Government to pay people to get married, or to pay them for being married. I do think that it's reasonable for parents/carers to get child benefit, for example: it's an acknowledgement that children cost money and also that children are a future resource, but it's not the same as paying people for the choices they make sexually or with regard to who they live with. While some people want to marry and many find being married makes them happy, being married doesn't protect you against domestic violence or bankruptcy or your your spouse suddenly deciding to leave you.

Married men are less likely to suffer from depression than single men, but married women are more likely to, compared to single women.

You're going to have to define a co-habiting couple really before churning out stats like that? Someone who has moved in for a month?