To think in life being a nice, good person rarely counts for much?

[Autumncalm]

I’ve noticed in life that being nice, helpful, honest, reliable, trustworthy rarely count for much.

For example when I was at school (and I still see the same thing happening now at my children’s school), horrible bully type kids can be the most popular and rarely get any kind of consequences for being nasty. It seems as though no one wants to get on the wrong side of the bullies.

My children play in football teams and one of the coaches always goes on about turning up to training, being a good team player, listening, trying your best. But the truth is they only want the best players. There are players that rarely turn up to training, are nasty to other kids, but because they are naturally talented players they still get to play a full game every week, get man of the match and so on

I see it happen at work. One of my colleagues got really badly bullied by another colleague she even had email proof and it went to HR but nothing happened to the bully colleague because she is admittedly good at her job and has experiences that others don’t.

It’s not always like that, one of my children never got picked for anything at primary school even though he tried his best, behaved etc but once he got to secondary his good nature paid off and they started actually rewarding effort and good behaviour but I do believe that often in life that the values we are told to have don’t really get you anywhere.

Perhaps the OP doesn't like the fact her kids aren't as talented as the " horrors"

I agree to some extent but do think if you’re nice you also need to be assertive.

Ive seen many nice quieter people get overlooked in favour of louder extroverted types in promotion opportunities and just general social activities as well.

I think we should all strive to be nice and good people but take no shit. So many people on here will never speak up for fear of any kind of confrontation even when there are desperately cheeeky fuckers taking advantage. You have to be able to speak up and say no to things.

Counts for everything, peace of mind, contentment, rich inner life.

Mastery is one of the most prized human status giving things especially for men. Being best at basketball/football/golf:chess conveys immediate status.

Charm and charisma unfortunately are other traits humans really prize. These are less earned than mastery.

You can be extroverted AND nice

On the subject of children's sport, what I think is really unfair is when adults running the squads are not honest about selection criteria. I remember when DS was at primary school a parent ran an after school football club and told the boys that everyone would get a go at playing in a match. DS excitedly waited for his turn...which never came. It would have been much better if the man running the group had just been honest that he would pick teams based on getting the best players for each match.

No I know @Timeforachange26 I am one of them i was just meaning that I sometimes feel bad that others who are nice but just quieter get overlooked.

I see what you mean, OP but I think it's important to be able to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know that you might be flawed but you are a good person.

I think it's possible to be nice and honest but also have boundaries.

Small example, but I was at the market the other day and picked out some make up in my shade. A woman near me saw it was in my hand and said she wanted the same shade but couldn't find another one. I gave her mine because it was the last one, she took it and paid for it but didn't say thank you. I shrugged it off.

A few minutes later, I picked out something else and she pipes up again that she wanted that colour and looks me in the eyes. This time I just looked at her and wanted to say 'you should have said thank you the first time.' She was surprised when I just ignored her and paid for it.

‘Nice’ is the most bland of descriptors. I’ve said it before, but ‘nice’ is the word you use when asked to describe someone you’ve barely even noticed.

’Nice’ is also used as a synonym for doormat. It’s someone who believes that putting themselves last is a virtue they’ll be rewarded for, but what it actually means is that they’ll be taken advantage of. Not that they won’t allow it, because they will. They’ll let it happen whilst impotently sitting and seething about it.

Being bold, going for what you want, and having boundaries aren’t generally perceived as being ‘nice’ traits, and particularly not when it comes to women. They’re widely considered to be admirable traits in men. Not being ‘nice’ isn’t the same thing as being unpleasant though, and people that are unpleasant and go through life with zero social smarts or ability to read their audience don’t and won’t succeed.

Personally, I don’t care about whether I’m ‘nice’ or not. I care about whether I like me, and if I like my life and the people in it. If someone doesn’t think I’m nice because I won’t dance to their tune, then good.

Yup I agree. I hope I’m a nice person and I always try and do the right thing and be kind to others and helpful. However I am easily forgotten. Whereas the woman I work with is a bitch but everyone loves her!

You are writing a story about the meaning of life, which is what we all do. But yours is a slightly warped and miserable one. It also places you as a bit of a victim, unable to affect your own circumstances.

It sounds like you thought being "good" would be rewarded - and in fact life is much more random than that. Some good people have terrible lives and some bad people have great lives.

But - the story I tell myself is that I can change me, and become more resilient, build my skills, improve my friendships, create good times and nice memories. So that's pretty much what has happened over my life. And I now hang out with basically good people living a value driven life, and try to do my bit to make the world a nicer place in tiny ways.

And that works for me. I stay away from bullies and manipulative people if I can. I hope you find a way to find your tribe and be a bit happier, you sound quite sad at the moment.

And if this is really a post about why kids get picked for teams - that's probably no help at all, except please try and help your child be resilient and not develop their own narrative of "everyone's against me".

So, you are the epitome of "nice and kind" yet you are calling your co worker a "bitch", are jealous of her, and cannot understand why people arent flocking to be your friend?

😆

I’m really curious by whose standard are you always doing the right thing? There is no really objective standard for that and it is often the case that the right thing for one person has consequences that are felt by other people.

‘ no one wants to get on the wrong side of bullies’ is horrendously true and bullies really do accrue cowardly followers and then there is a gang. It’s incredible to see the escalating echo chambers led by bullies.
is virtue its own reward? It kind of better be as it’s hard to see societal reward for it.

There's always a tension in human societies between the tough and unscrupulous vs the civilised. Throughout history bullies and tyrants have often got more than other people. We are lucky that we now live in a society that values fairness and upholds the rule of law. Often, upholding these values also requires a sort of toughness though and the pendulum is always swinging between strong and weak people, or those who are principled and unprincipled.

The best way to live is to know what values you believe in and uphold them as strongly as you can. If you feel the football team doesn't share your values, leave and find another one (or start your own). That's a great way to teach your child what matters to you.

I do think you're right that niceness isn't always a successful life strategy, but that's because often niceness can just be about control or the desire to be liked. For me being 'nice' is way down my list of important values. I believe in community and selflessness, but more important than those are fairness, justice, integrity, honesty etc.

You can be a nice, good person and be succesful at life - you just also have to be tough, set boundaries, learn to say no etc. Being nice and being a doormat are not the same thing.

Yanbu x

It shows that the coach is the problem. I’d say in my DS’s football the team players with the best attitudes are the best players, they never give less than 100% and the two best (one of them is very good) are really good at bringing the others up.

No one gives a shit how “nice “ you are when trying out for a sports team do they ? I mean no premier league footballer got on to the team for being “nice “ and “kind”. That’s life

I came across horrible little shits when I was a child, and there were horrible little shits when my kids were at school. They all disappeared eventually in my experience.

You’ll meet people like this throughout life, just be yourself.

I disagree, and think the examples you've picked are bad.
Being good at sports or having specific skills at work doesn't mean you're liked or appreciated. You're just being used for the purpose of building a winning team. You could as well be a pet or a screwdriver, you'd get the same reward.
Being a bully at school might make you "popular" but it's out of fear rather than being liked, and what's admired by teens is barely tolerated by young adults. They'll have to change or get booted out.

Being the scene, most adults I've met who are displaying bullying or similar behaviours are lonely and miserable, haven't really built any strong friendships, and know they are being talked about behind their back. But yeah, they might be relatively successful at work!

You shouldn't teach your children values to be successful in sports and work, but to build meaningful relationships that will support them in life.

It counts for your own integrity.

Even if nobody sees you acting badly - hanging dogshit bags in trees is a good example - you still know what you did and have to look yourself in the mirror. What would you see to be proud of?