School want to trial a part time timetable after just 2 weeks at the school - WWYD?

[PinkPandaas]

DS is in his second week of Year 7. He has ADHD, an EHCP and CAMHS think he has ODD as well although they won't formally diagnose it.

He was permanently excluded from primary school last year and went to a PRU before starting mainstream secondary this term.

It's been a difficult two weeks. Lots of refusing lessons, swearing at staff, walking out of class and generally refusing instructions. He's got a 1:1 but at the moment he's rejecting a lot of the support because he says he doesn't need a "babysitter".

I've had a meeting with school today and they've suggested trialling a part-time timetable for a few weeks. They want him in every morning, then I'd collect him at lunchtime. They said they've noticed he seems much more settled in the mornings and most of the serious incidents are happening in the afternoons. Their thinking is that if he can finish each day on a positive note it might help him build up to full days.

Part of me understands the logic. The other part of me is worried it's just teaching him that if he refuses enough or struggles enough he gets to come home early. His primary school and the PRU used to send him home a lot to "calm down" and looking back I sometimes wonder if he learnt that kicking off meant going home.

I'm also worried about what it means long term. Is this the start of them deciding mainstream isn't going to work? Or is it actually a sensible way of helping him settle?

I'm really torn because I want to work with the school, but I don't want to make things worse by agreeing to something that isn't actually helping him.

I can see the school's logic to be honest. It sounds like it would be a good idea to trial mornings only.

The thing is what other options do you have? Permanent exclusion again? I can see why you think it might work against you here but they aren’t suggesting it as a permanent solution. It will gradually be increased at a slow pace so he won’t only be doing mornings forever.

You seem to be thinking of him as a 'typical' child saying he will learn kicking off gets him sent home. You need to think of him for what he is, a child with significant additional needs. Being excluded from primary school is very extreme in this day and age. He can't cope with full days right now, follow the schools advice.

Hes entitled to a fullntime education
I would request an early review of his EHCP
Are they saying they cant meet his needs?

I would definitely take the schools advice OP which sounds really positive.

Hes been excluded before and been to a PRU. You need to be doing everything you can to try and settle him in and if half days are the suggestion I would go for that!!

You also don't seem to be considering the other kids who his behaviour will impact.

Realistically the other options are that they start giving detentions/working through the pastoral process which is likely to mean temporary suspensions especially if he is swearing at teachers.

in my school we had nurture classes for kids like this.

unfortunately if he was excluded from mainstream primary the chances he can cope in mainstream secondary without significant adjustments - ie being in a nurture group/similar and not in normal classes - are virtually nil.

It sounds like a sensible plan for now.

They may be right in that ending on a more positive note may make a difference.

It sounds like he isn't really learning anything in the afternoon anyway if he's kicking off and walking out of class.

There are two separate considerations here:

1. What is the aim of the part time timetable, and how will it be managed back to full time? What are the criteria for success and the timespan it will be over? What adjustments and interventions are going to be made during this period to facilitate it? This all needs formally documenting, probably as part of a TAC or similar, and o ensure this is part of a process and not just partial exclusion.
2. Is mainstream the right long term provision for your son, and if not what do the alternatives look like? Is the school doing this as part of the steps towards “cannot meet needs”?

You need to be firm on the first, including ensuring that the EHCP is up to date, specific, and appropriate, whilst quietly considering the second and having a good idea of what needs to happen for a different future if 1. Doesn’t work.
Good luck. I have had DS in a specialist school since exclusion and 5 terms at a PRU in primary, and it’s far from perfect but better than failing in mainstream constantly

Just going part time isn't going to fix anything. My DD struggles with the school environment, it's like being forced to spend time in a box of spiders, obviously the less time spent in the box of spiders will make things better, but then increasing the time again because he's doing better without changing the environment won't make any difference.

I would follow schools advice but as per PP what is the plan for him to transition to fuller days ?

what is the plan to address the behaviour and triggers to him kicking off ? Is he medicated for adhd ? Has he been assessed for anxiety or other MH conditions that can be co-morbid with adhd? He’s a long time (hopefully) in secondary school and year 7 is the time
tp try and get it right

we didn’t get it right with our dc and had a school exclusion at 14 to cope with. Coming right now but I needed to have involved CAMHS and the local council earlier, taken advice from the school, paid for private counselling and private psych earlier and got on to trialling adhd and SSRI medications years before we eventually did.

he sounds like he is in significant stress and with significant anger : there are some
mood stabilisers that help with adhd symptoms as well. Look up guanfacine for one.

I think you posted about your son before.

A big question is - do you think mainstream is going to work/is what's best for your child? On the one hand, them requesting a part time timetable is evidence they can't meet his needs so might be useful if you want to appeal the placement (based on your previous post, I think you should). On the other hand, part time timetables are sometimes used to keep children in mainstream who really shouldn't be.

If you do want to keep him in mainstream, I agree that you need a detailed plan that gives clear, measurable targets towards a full time timetable. Otherwise the school is just passing the buck on to you. Your child has a right to a full time education. If this isn't possible for him in mainstream, other options need to be put on the table.

This is excellent advice.

He has a right to a full time education so you could say no. However, if he manages in the morning and they have a clear plan to help get to full time it might be a way of him settling in. fwiw I wish this had been offered for my ds as I think it would've helped him settle and saved a lot of heartache.

Definitely request an early review of DS’s EHCP. What other support is currently in the EHCP and is it being provided?

If MS wasn’t your preference, did you appeal?

It will help you to read the suspension and permanent exclusion guidance. Part-time timetables should not be used to manage behaviour. They shouldn’t be used just because the school doesn’t feel able to meet DS’s SEN, either.

If you want DS to attend full-time but are worried about the threat of suspension, don’t be. A formal suspension rather than an unlawful informal exclusion it will a) provide you with evidence of unmet needs, b) force the school to follow due process, c) limit the number of days the school can suspend for, d) allow you to challenge any suspension, and e) ensure DS receives alternative provision once he has reached that threshold.

Has the school put this in writing? You need to keep a paper trail.

I think it's a good idea and proactive in managing the difficulties, rather than continuing with something that is otherwise not working and could end up with suspension again.

Well that plan won't work because he won't grow out of ADHD.
Sounds like he has PDA too.
Is he medicated for his ADHD?

It sounds like part-time would work best all round for the time being. Try not to see this as a negative, the goal here is to allow your DS to have a positive experience in school so that you can build from there. He is clearly struggling so it's right that the school are looking at ways to help him.

As a PP said, I would want to be clear on what the goal of the part time adjustment is, and what other support will be given along side the reduction in hours. It sounds like your DS will need significant intervention in order to be successful in mainstream secondary so they should be making a plan on how to support him.

Finally, please don't feel that mainstream school is the only way forward. My DS couldn't manage in mainstream and we transferred to a specialist provision in year 9. I wish that we had made the move earlier rather than allowing things to spiral. A specialist school was exactly what he needed in order to learn and thrive and he's just passed some GCSE's and is now a happy kid with a future.

It sounds like a very sensible approach to help him see school as a positive experience rather than end each day negatively. However, being blunt if he could not cope with mainstream Primary school it's very unlikely he will cope in a mainstream secondary without significant support, which he is refusing.

I would start looking into alternative provision for him and work alongside the school to get him into an environment that suits his needs as soon as possible.

I totally sympathise with the fact that mainstream school may not be the right place for him but there are so few SEN schools and places that you need to work with the school.
I have been teaching for 25 years in both mainstream and SEND. I think what the school are offering is a really good option and shows that they want to work with you and your DS, whilst safeguarding staff and pupils.
I would suggest a half term of mornings, your DS's needs will mean that he is fighting all the changes at the moment and will be overwhelmed with new routine and people. After the first half term trial one afternoon in the first week, 2 in the second etc. Make it a slow build up. If he feels that he is ready earlier then you can discuss with the school.
Does he have any hobbies that he can build on out of school? For example of he loves football could you take him back to school for football training if he has had a good week? You need to work with the school and advocate for your son, don't worry about what he misses - see it as what he gains by staying in class and completing work.

I'd be curious what else they're hoping to implement around the reduced timetable, that will help him work towards managing full days. As someone else said, the environment around him also needs to adapt otherwise he'll just end up dysregulated and heading towards burnout all over again when his day is increased.

A reduced timetable can be really helpful, but it can't just be used in isolation. I'd suggest the time he does spend in school also focuses on building his trust and relationships with key staff members, considering how to help school FEEL like a safe place to him etc.

I would also want a very clear plan and timeframe in place. I've seen some kids end up on reduced timetables indefinitely which isn't ideal. Ask questions about what happens if this doesn't work. Make sure regular review meetings are scheduled. As other posters have said, don't be scared of alternative provisions - ask what is available and possibly arrange visits so that you have a clear idea of options should they be needed.

Best of luck to you and your son ♥️

I think Id want further discussions. Assuming there is an EHCP - are they providing the support listed, is that working and if it isn't why isn't it. Does there need to be an urgent review? Has the LA and other agencies involved.

What are their proposals for part time? It should be short-term and have an end date, review dates and a clear plan to move back to full-time. How will it be managed day-to-day?

My son has dyspraxia which is nothing really compared to your son. BUT, one of the ways it manifested itself at high school was he was more tired and less engaged in the afternoons.

Maybe you should try it?

I understand your view but I also think just agree to this for now, with a clear view that he stays there all morning and they can't call you to come any earlier x

Sounds as though he’s not getting enough of the right kind of support, since he seems very dysregulated. I would consider other settings (specialist state or specialist independent) and see whether he’d be better supported there? You could call an emergency ehcp review and get his school to say they cannot meet his needs. “Giving up” on mainstream schools isn’t a negative thing, if he isn’t thriving. Being in the correct environment where he can thrive is the goal. I often think mainstream schools default to part time timetables because ultimately they don’t have enough resources and it’s the easiest/safest thing for them but it’s not always what is best for the child.