I think people hate me and I think I know why

[Moodymaree]

i just realised today maybe people don’t like me (or I perceive they don’t like me) because I might come across really moody? Obviously mumsnet cannot diagnose me over a post I know! But what do the rest of you think below are some things I’ve noticed:

I get stressed quite quickly and I get anxious. I do have childhood trauma which makes me hyper vigilant. Today for example was first day of secondary and I saw a mum from DS’s primary school and asked the mum if I could take a pic of boys (they are really good friends and best friends so not random boy I found on the way to school!) I took a pic of them and DS gave the widest, cutest and cheesiest smile he’s ever done! and I commented why couldn’t you smile like that this morning?! He looked really sulky in the pictures I took at home. I asked his friend Fred if I could just get a pic of DS alone now. The mum yanked Fred and said let’s go here I want a picture here. I realised I might have sounded rude? I really didn’t mean to. I have extreme anxiety and wanted to get out of there quickly.

Then the class went for coffee and I know I should have waited for Fred’s mum but she seemed busy so I walked down with the other mums - I don’t know them btw I only know Fred’s mum as our boys were only ones to move to the school from primary.

I feel really guilty she must think I’m rude and I think part of me does want her to hate me as I rather superficial friendships rather than meaningful ones as I feel unable to have real friendships due hi my trauma.

I really don’t want sympathy for my childhood I only wrote it for context but do you all think I just come across moody? I e seen my reflection suddenly sometimes and I do look moody and miserable! How can I change it? As I’m getting older it seems worse, maybe Botox!!!!

I don’t think you sound moody. I think that preferring superficial friendships rather than meaningful relationships is just a way of protecting yourself and possibly avoiding committing time to anything else.

There’s nothing wrong with that.

Just accept who you are, stop overthinking and be happy and confident with your own personality. As long as you are kind to others, when you do speak to them, this will then show naturally on your face with time.

No Botox needed!

I think the interaction you described possibly didn't create the best impression if I'm honest. It's very difficult to get a child out of a shot after you've finished with them, as it were, without risking looking like they're a prop. It was also Fred's first day and his mum was likely dealing with their own stuff around that, yet obliged you. So it would have been better to have not asked him to move.
It would also have been better to wait for his mum, especially as you thought you'd annoyed her, just to say thanks for letting Fred be in the photo, do you want me to send it to you?
I think if you struggle, then it might help to be more of a responder than an instigator in social situations until you get the measure of other people.

This is so true

I'm not sure I've ever recommended medication first off, but I'm doing it now.

In the space of a few short minutes, you -
Undermined your nervous little boy. You could've just said "What a brilliant smile, DS!"
Dismissed his nervous little friend as unwanted or irrelevant.
Walked away from the only friend you have in this situation.
Made it clear you preferred the other women's company.

You behaved like a truly unpleasant person, almost looking for rejection (even from your own son). I understand what you've said about the underlying causes but, all the same, my mind was yelling "Not everything's about you!" while reading.

Your therapists should have taught you techniques to deal with inappropriate emotional reactions. Since these clearly aren't working for you, get some medication to 'calm' your feelings. Use the little space it provides to think better about the actual situation you're in and what you can contribute to everyone's day.

And please give your son some great ego boosts.

I am also going to say that the more likely culprit is how you spoke to your son. Not only it is not giving the best impression of you to others but also think about the situation here and what you are reinforcing - your son did something which you thought was a nice behaviour but instead of rewarding it with a positive interaction, you created a negative association by reminding him that you were displeased with his earlier performance. Therefore your desired positive behaviour is now associated with unpleasant feedback and is, therefore, less likely to be repeated.
I am well familiar with this approach as my own mother does the same. It's extremely unpleasant to witness.

I find that if I'm getting wound up in these situations, owning it makes me feel better. So I smile at the other person and say "Phew, sorry this morning's been an effort and I'm a bit frazzled" and that defuses things. It's ok not to find everyday life easy.

Talking therapies won't really do it for trauma, because trauma has a somatic component - essentially a re-occurring short-circuit in the nervous system due to the mind never filing that book away into the long-term memory library at the time of the traumatic event.

The body-mind system keeps offering the book up for the pages or chapter to be read, then processed and it never offers the book up at convenient times!

EMDR and/or Integrated Family Systems work are generally the approaches, EMDR was seen as woo at one stage, but even NICE has begun accepting it.

IFS and EMDR are not quick fixes, at least 6-12 months. Although there is trauma-informed CBT, which is short-term, but generally appears to work better when combined with a somatic approach.

What you've described sounds like it could be self-criticism being driven by internalised shame - shame which may only be partly related to how you think you've been perceived by the other mum... and even if she did think you were rude, its far from the worst thing anyone's ever done.

This sounds like classic RSD to me. Could you be ND?

you created a negative association by reminding him that you were displeased with his earlier performance

ADHD here (no specific childhood trauma but definitely still feeling the effects of being brought up as an ND child by probably ND parents obsessed with outward appearances). I love my parents deeply and they're good people but they weren't hugely affectionate and I can remember many instances of being judged or criticised for not behaving 'appropriately' (for things like, not saying thank you enthusiastically enough, not accepted seconds when offered as it might have made the person think I didn't like their food (I didn't, and I'd already gulped down one helping 🙄). A lot of this, looking back, was linked to my DM's own anxieties/insecurities.

I suffer from quite a high level of anxiety in many situations, but try to focus on ensuring all my interactions with my children are warm and positive (even when I'm telling them off, I try to use humour when I can). It doesn't really matter what relative strangers think of me and them, but it does matter that I'm building them up through positive interactions.

Sorry, I think that's unhelpfully glib. Imagine the other mum posting here about her awkward interaction with OP and being left like a spare part while OP went off with the others. You could easily tell her she has classic RSD and may be ND!

Fact is, people need people and we all want basic consideration for each other's feelings. Residual trauma is known to mimic ND in its effects (ask me how I know) - and it's very possible to learn how to adapt our responses. With chemical help, if needed.

I don't think any of us know from just your posts, OP.

But being moody would put me off someone. You are free to feel anything you like, but try not to always show it. You do have to put on a bit of a positive and cheerful front in order to make friends. Once you know people well, they will be more willing to bear with you when you're feeling low, but you will put them off if you just come over on first meeting as moody.

I have a total 'resting bitch face' - absolutely miserable! So I've trained myself over the years to adjust this so as not to frighten people off. Several people way back remarked that when they met me they were scared of me because I looked so serious and forbidding - which isn't me at all - I'm a very silly and jokey person. But physically, I was giving all the wrong signals.

Before any pp appears to tell me that 'women don't owe the world a smile' etc etc, yes, I know that. It's not about being a woman - it's a totally gender-irrelevant situation. If you have been blessed with a grim natural expression, you'd be very foolish not to deal with it if you want to make a good impression on new people.

I'm curious, @Moodymaree - how did you get along with the others at the coffee shop?

Regardless of the interaction you have described - Your post makes you sound very stressy and like you overthink things .
I tend to stay away from people like this as they put me on edge.

I'm not sure if you come across as moody in that interaction but possibly you do seem erratic and highly strung, which to be honest I don't have time for when maintaining friendships. I don't need to add stress to my day. Nervous energy is not fun energy.

I thought you meant primary and was writing an answer relating to that. Doing the school run with photos and walking with them to secondary is a bit weird in my book but I suppose Fred's mum was also doing that, so that won't be the reason why... It may be she thought you were rude to your DS, or that you are a bit tense. or she might not have been thinking about you at all. who knows.

do you have good friends that you have known for a while? aside from this sort of casual friendship?

Honestly, people aren't thinking about you anywhere NEAR as much as you're thinking about yourself.

At best, you are a passing blip in their day, who, especially if they don't know you well, they'll hardly register.

Remember, that other mum was also concentrating on the fact that it was also HER son's first day at secondary school - a big occasion for any parent and child. The fact that you and your son were also there, is by the by really. She was focused on her child. You and your son were, at best, side characters.
When you suggested a solo photo, most likely her thought was something like, "Oh, that's a good idea. Let's grab another quick pic before he goes in." Your interaction with YOUR son, won't have even blipped on her radar.

She probably won't have even noticed that you went down to coffee with the other mums, rather than waited for her. Again, she'll be thinking about her own son and hoping he's got in okay, not "Oh, why didn't OP wait for me?"

I agree.
Its hard because the thought might pop into your head, but they are so sensitive and he was smiling at you so it wasn't fair to tell him off for that morning, when he was actually doing what you wanted to.

The other mum probably was busy. She probably wasn't thinking much about what anyone else was doing but getting stuff done now that they were all at school again.

If you feel bad about not doing coffee with her that day.. ask her if she'd like to go for coffee another day, in a very open ended way ie no pressure.. Or suggest a play date for the boys. Its still great weather and daylight when they get out. We used to go to a park for conkers during the first week back before it go too dark and they always loved that. Your school contact doesn't have to be your best mate nor you hers. just a friendly contact, whose children get along with each other. They will both appreciate that in a new school. There's all kinds of grades of friendship. Just be friendly without too much pressure. If you are around at pick up time,try to take your DS to some afterschool things and chat with the parents there ( just casual casual chat.. you may meet a fellow soul, or you may not and either is fine) I hope that helps OP x

I don't think you should let your anxiety rule how you relate to people. If you are worried and look in the mirror, of course you will think you look a bit miserable. See if it makes a difference if you smile a bit more next time (although I don't mean in the sense that sexist men mean it when they say "cheer up love" but simply try a different expression. (edited to add I think @CoffeeCantata summed this balance up well, )
but really you don't need to try to change yourself to the extent of putting on an act that you think other people will like. That comes across as needy and intense. People prefer things to be authentic I think.

Perhaps on the school run, or on the way to these meet ups, it might help to listen to some music you really love, to drown out some of these inner worries and try not to focus on what other people are thinking.
There's much less of the school gate interaction in secondary ( which is a relief) Maybe you have a bit more time to yourself now and can find some things that you really enjoy doing, the gym, a hobby etc and that will spread the worrys around and make everything less intense for you.

I'm rather surprised your DS allowed you to get a photo outside school at all at that age, so you're lucky there.

When mine started secondary school the only photos I could get on the first morning were at home before they left for the school bus. A parent accompanying them to secondary school and trying to take photos on arrival would have been considered the very height of uncool and they would have disowned me.

Anyway, as unideal as your interactions with your DS were, I highly doubt that Fred's mum is giving you anything like as much headspace as you are giving her. You are overthinking.

For god's sake, she said to her son "I commented why couldn’t you smile like that this morning", when she was presumably taking pictures of his before his forst day at secondary school.

Why the hell are load of posters on this thread pretending that was rude?

I don't think her comment to him was rude, but most secondary school children would consider a parent snapping photos of them outside school quite uncool.

Based on three posts on this thread I would speculate that you might be quite self-involved. Nobody on the school run is interested in your trauma, your unique and special inability to be helped by therapy or your anxiety.

also is this secondary? You don’t need to be friends with all the school mums. Get in, get out. Live your own life. It doesn’t matter what they think. But chances are Fred’s mum isn’t thinking about you at all.

You really don't sound like you did anything wrong. I expect Fred's mum wanted a photo of him on his own as well which is why she moved on and I expect you two are not really friends but your children are.

I think you're probably suffering from anxiety that no one likes you and I'm quite sure they're not even giving you a second thought tbh. If you hadn't said you'd wait for Fred's mum then why would you? There's a good chance she went with another set of parents she may have already known.

As for your face, well mine has always dropped into a scowl naturally but people who know me know I genuinely laugh and smile a lot and their approval is enough for me.

Smile and say hi when you see her again, ask if Fred is settling in ok and keep it very casual.

Oh and injecting botulism into your face? Not a great idea.

It was a shitty thing to do, maybe not ‘rude’ as such but it was certainly nasty to have a go at him like that. Some parents regard this kind of thing normal though, perhaps you are one of them?

You can absolutely practice a ‘friendly face’ in the mirror. And tone of voice.
my mum has a lot of childhood trauma and a grumpy face but she actually does have her ‘meeting people friendly face and tone’ which is actually very different to her default at home. I actually spoke to her about it and she said it is an actual effort but she has to do it or she would have no friends and not go anywhere.

Yes I can recognise these traits too.