Are my SIL's divorce expectations unrealistic?

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In short, my brother and SIL intend to divorce but she wishes to continue being a SAHM. Their children are 19 (away at uni), 14 and 13.

They separated 4 years ago and were cohabiting until SIL started dating a new man. My brother has quite a well paid job and managed to buy a 4 bed flat in the nearby city. It needed a lot of work but is finished now. He WFH a fair bit so has the kids there when needed. He does at times have to travel overseas for work.

My brother has also recently started seeing someone new. So, brother and SIL have started to discuss selling their marital home (SIL is still living there with the children).

SIL has been a SAHM since the children were born and this had been the source of a lot of friction in the marriage as the children got older. My brother had no problem with SIL not being in paid work, but she is a big spender. I have been at their house many times when numerous boxes of stuff arrived from Amazon. My brother eventually set a budget that SIL was not delighted about. She also has some debt of her own, my brother has paid some of it off.

SIL went back to work 3.5 days a week when they separated. This job suits her perfectly and she can sometimes work from home. However, a few weeks ago she started talking about 'burn out' and has now resigned from the job. She has no intention of finding a new job but is saying that she wants to sell the house, that her share should be 70% because she has the children living with her, and needs to buy a 4 bed house in the town we live in (which is expensive). She wants a sum of money to put into a savings account and she wants her new mortgage to be paid by my brother.

They are amicable (at the moment). My brother told me last night that she is now asking him to go to financial mediation because she thinks he is hiding funds. He has told me that he isn't, and has 2 savings accounts and his pension - which she knows about.

AIBU to feel that I've never really heard anything like this? When my exH and I separated, I immediately upped my hours at work to full time and my children were also teens.

He can want the wife to work but then he needs to accept that’s 50:50 of everything to do with kids/house/cooking. 50% of all pick ups and drop offs - so get to the after school club for 4.30!. 50% of all illness cover. The trips abroad would need to stop as how can you do 50:50 when you are not in the country?

It needs to be fair. Not her going back to work and carry on doing 90% of the childcare and house stuff.

And maybe this is why she didn’t get a job - as she knows he wouldn’t do 50:50. So she’d be left doing everything. We have no idea about his job and their marriage.

Not strictly true. 50/50 is the starting point but if her earning capacity is less than his then she'll likely get more.

It honestly sounds like you are just bitter, you’ve mentioned several times how you had to go back to work as soon as you split from your exDH and do long days that were hard work.
Perhaps they have enough assets that she can take a break from work for a while, that’s really non of your business.
Her life being easier than yours won’t change anything, your life still worked out how it worked out.
He had enough money to immediately buy a 4 bed property and renovate it while they still owned the marital home and had a mortgage on it. Perhaps their assets will be enough to support her for a while, when she needs to she will have to work again.
You seem overly invested.

Does she want 70% of house equity or 70% total assets (which would include his flat equity etc)?

in similar circumstances, my friends ex wife wanted 70%, he felt 60% was fair and they settled on 65% I believe. Giving up that 5% each was less than it would have cost to fight it out in court so he doesn’t need to be mindful of that. If I was your brother I’d sacrifice more of the assets so that he doesn’t need to support her in an ongoing way (other than child maintenance for the next 4 years).

Id forget about whether she works, is reasonable to want to be a SAHM etc. Whether she in a job or not, your brother clearly has much greater earning power, in part facilitated by her being a SAHM when the children were smaller and there are still children to house so she will need a bigger share. 70% of the house but only 50% of everything else could be an option to suggest. How much equity is there and what level of mortgage would she need for a 4 bed?

I think she will be entitled to more of the equity/ savings as she has put her career on hold to raise the kids which will impact her earning capabilities going forwards, she may also be entitled to half the value of the pension, which is again totally reasonable (although this would need to consider, time before the marriage that he was building pension, and his age relative to hers).

I doubt she will be able to get her wish of him continuing to pay her mortage, particularly with the age of the kids, the UK divorce system favours clean financial breaks (which will be achieved by a larger share of the house equity).

She will also be entitiled to appropriate Child maintenance for a few more years. She could also be difficult when it comes to co-parenting, as you brother is presumably relying on her when he works abroad, so could push for a regular routine which impacts on his flexibilty and plays in her favour. How many nights are the kids with you brother. Can you step in to have the kids when your brother is abroad if she does decide to play games?

She is a fool to have resigned from her job, she better find a new one ASAP, and also manage her expectations of where she lives (like most of us have to when we get divorced!).

It’s incredible how entitled some people can be. My husband’s ex wife wrongly expected she’d be able to stay in the house with the children whilst he paid for the privilege of seeing them every so often. He applied for 50/50 which was granted, meaning maintenance was not due either way and he could see his children fairly and equally.

After years of 50/50 the divorce finally came to conclusion she had the audacity to apply for spousal maintenance because there was a disparity between their earnings.

I can’t imagine expecting someone to pay me money simply because we used to be married and they have a better job.

Some people will try it on. My DP’s ex was similar (she did the same with work too). I won’t go into the details but she was very well compensated and now over 10 years later she still asks for money from time to time (thankfully he has now learnt to say no). Your SIL sounds very unreasonable and if he doesn’t set her expectations early it won’t stop.

I've just had a think. I, nor any of my friends or family have contributed a single thing to our husbands careers. They're all super involved dads who all cook most evenings. I can't remember the last time I made my own food.

They all worked hard before meeting us and if we popped our cloggs tomorrow nothing would change within their career. The same goes if they met the same fate.

I don't get this take that women facilitate their husbands careers as some massive sacrifice. If you don't want to be a martyr, don't be one

I’d put money on you not getting the full story from your brother. There are always two sides to every story

I know right? It’s mind blowing.

The OP on one hand says her DB couldn’t possibly do any more childcare because of his very important job and vital overseas travel but in the same breath the SIL should have been working full time and doing everything else too….

And he hasn’t benefited at all by her being at home….

Yes sorry that is what I meant. They’ll start at 50:50 but she will likely get more - much to everyone’s horror on here.

I think focusing on whether she has a piddly part time job is wrong and bitter. There are clearly huge assets at play here - two four bedroom properties, a pension. Why is OP invested in whether her sister in law has a part time minimum wage job?

The SIL would be better with a fair asset split then downshizing in a few years. Yes maybe she will get a low paid job but that is not the make or break here! Though it would make the OP feel better…

It will end up being your business if you are needed to help, or if the kids want to talk to you. Kids traumatised by divorce often talk to aunts/grandparents rather than their parents, so anyone who says you should stay out of it needs to realise that.
If SIL caused all this, she should be working more, and why should she get the better end of the deal? Unless someone has needs you don't mention, there's no reason she shouldn't work FT. If she wanted a nicer life, she shouldn't have behaved like this.

Why do so many women think they are entitled not to have to work just because they married a rich husband?

She said her brother was happy for SIL to be a SAHM but was concerned about her spending.

As a SAHM I think it would be reasonable for her to get more equity, but she can work now, the children are older, it’s her choice not to, and it is completely unreasonable is for her to expect her exDH to pay for her new mortgage. It sets a precedent and is, I think, a worrying sign she will expect him to continue subsidising her lifestyle long into the future.

Can one really be a SAHM when your youngest child is 14? What on earth does she do all day every day when they’re at school? Wipe the skirting boards, clean the bath, go to the gym, mop the floors, walk the dog… Sounds so fucking boring. Being a SAHM before your kids are in school is one thing, it’s also not that bad when they’re small in primary school but when they’re teens?! She’s just bone fucking idle by the sound of things especially since she had a job she could “fit around” her TEENAGERS which she’s now quit.

Your brother is doing enough, SIL needs to get her burnt out arse back to work.

One can try. My DP’s ex tried it with children in their 20s (no special needs, but still living at home) 😅

And I would suggest being at work would be far easier than being at home with three young kids. (I know they are older now but they were young once).

I’ve done every variation- I’ve worked full time with young kids, I’ve been at home for a bit, I’ve worked part time. Being at home was the hardest! People are acting like SAHMs are sat on their arse watching daytime TV all day.

It doesn’t matter what we think. She will be entitled to probably about 60% of the marital assets which appear to be large. Her getting a minimum wage job won’t really impact things going forward.

Back off, you shouldn’t get involved and yes, financial mediation sounds a good idea

I would hope she’d get more than 60%, and I didn’t say she should or shouldn’t work - it’s up to her - but it’s unreasonable of her to expect her exDH to pay her mortgage and if she wants one she is going to need to hold down a job.

She actually told me that she needs to spend more time with her new partner.

So she wants two men to keep her??

I can accept that she perhaps gets a bigger share of the matrimonial home but to expect your DB to pay her mortgage on a new house is being away with the fairies. I don't think any judge in any court will go for that.

And where does the new chap fit into all this? Will he be on the deeds of her new house so your DB is supporting him as well? Even if he is not on the deeds if he is living with your SIL your DB is in effect supporting this other man if he pays her mortgage. In this respect I think your SIL is perhaps being a CF.

But we don’t know how much equity they have, how much is in his pensions, shares. What the payout will be. So we can’t speculate really. He must be wealthy to afford two four bedroom properties.

If the eldest is 19 maybe there is no mortgage? We don’t know the financial details.

Depends on his income, standard of life children are used to, assets etc. she might be entitled to more if she enabled his career, made sacrifices re her own and did majority of parenting. If the children stay with her that’s an additional consideration. His new flat can be considered a marital asset so he needs to financial mediation tbh

It’s not unreasonable to want to be a SAHM. It is unreasonable to expect your ex to pay for it. He should tell her he is equally burned out so he won’t be paying for anything.

This must be a thing and this happened in my extended family too. In that case his ex-wife doesn’t understand he isn’t still covering 100% of all her household bills.

Someone I know - mum at school - was not supported to be a SAHM after her divorce. She got the house which huge but still had a bit of mortgage on it (he kept pension, personal savings/shares and all other assets) and a financial agreement was made for the children, but the judge explicitly stated that she was expected to get a job to support herself in exchange for not having to uproot herself and the kids. She had to retrain and grow up rather a lot.