AIBU to think school skirt bans undermine choice rather than equality?

[BadBadCat]

AIBU to think banning school skirts reinforces the opinion that to be equal, women need to be more like men.

I don't fully understand the reasons behind banning skirts in the drive for equality. I can only think that there are other reasons behind it that are not being made explicit by schools- maybe to eliminate up-skirting issues, to avoid having to deal with girls wearing inappropriately short ones, to eliminate the issue of transgender boys wearing skirts etc.

However, in my opinion, removing the choice of a skirt, which has been the traditional wear for women and girls and enforcing trousers, suggests that men's traditional attire is superior to women's. I'm all for girls wearing skirts if they choose, but I think it should be a choice. Schools saying they want to ensure comfort for all is disingenuous in my eyes because girls who feel uncomfortable in skirts can wear trousers if they wish.

It seems to me another removal of women's rights,

What do you all think?

The girls at the local school to us wear skirts so short, when they sit down their underwear must touch the seat. Grim! Maybe the school was sick of telling them to lengthen their skirt!
lots of jobs only allow trousers eg police officer, so you don’t get a choice of what to wear in loads of roles.

My DD wears shorts under her skirt. I don’t know if any girl who would be wanting to show her knickers at all!

As someone who once was a teenage boy, I did enjoy it if I could see a classmate's knickers. It's only natural.

maybe to eliminate up-skirting issues, to avoid having to deal with girls wearing inappropriately short ones, to eliminate the issue of transgender boys wearing skirts etc.

A sensible person/ school sees the potential problems ahead and avoids them.

Sounds like the school that bans skirts has avoided these problems before they start

Are you sure it’s underwear and not shorts

It actually makes me laugh. No one ever seems to be happy! I went to an all girls school where the uniform was skirts but tge Muslim girls were allowed to wear trousers. However several of them would wear trousers one day and then a skirt with thick tights tge following day. Allowing everyone to wear trousers was a hot topic every term at school council but non Muslim girls were never allowed trousers the whole time I was there.

As a Police Officer when I first joined women could only wear skirts. You had to put a report in to ask to be issued with trousers, which were obviously much more practical. My request was turned down because my sergeant didn’t like women in trousers. Despite all this I was still expected to climb through windows and over fences and then get a bollocking because you’d got a ladder in your tights!

I agree with the OP about this. It's removing the traditional women and girls' clothing choice and imposing the traditional male dress as default. This is sex discrimination. As with so many forms of discrimination, many people, including those who should (e.g. school heads), don't 'see' it.

I've noticed schools characterising this as 'gender neutral' uniform. In the same way, toilets are called 'gender neutral' when choice is taken away, (with greater adverse effects on women or girls, though affecting men or boys too) and mixed sex toilets are imposed. 'Gender neutral' sounds so bland and harmless, indeed so neutral, when it is far from that.

Why would a trans boy want to wear a skirt?

Why does simplifying the uniform to trousers do anything to undermine women?

sometimes, its not a culture war. Sometimes it’s just offering a simple uniform that everyone can adopt.

My mum went to the school and raised a ruckus when I was in P3 because I wasn’t allowed to wear trousers. When it was freezing.

Changed days for feminism when people now think skirts are better than trousers and are a “girl” thing.

So much for equality.

If the uniform is trousers then that’s what the uniform is for every pupil.

If you think skirts should be allowed then that should be allowed for every pupil.

Even the boys.

I think there should be choice. My DD chooses trousers in secondary school, but wouldn’t wear them in primary school. She’s very tall so at least she wouldn’t be getting suspended because the official school skirt would inevitably be shirt on her. They have girls trousers so fit better than the boys trousers.

Nothing to do with boys, and everything to do with girls who aren’t able to consent sexualising themselves.

They have said they don’t want anyone wearing skirts.

Yes for sure, some are lacy and some must be thongs for the amount of bum I see. Some could be hot pant type shorts, but I think you’re splitting hairs at that point and hot pants may as well be knickers (I have granny knickers that are bigger than some hot pants I’ve seen in the wild).

like anything there will always people that take things to extreme, I've seen indecent skirt lengths on many girls from different schools in my area and the older they are the shorter they seem to be.

At my school there were a few girls that done this, our teacher had a ruler and would measure the length... If teachers are still having to do this for most of the girls in the class, this would be a waste of the teachers time, it's disruptive! I'm sure the teachers would prefer to teach than carry out this rigmarole and issue detentions etc.

In this day and age most girls wear trousers, tracksuits, jeans etc... It's not like back in the 30's/40's where a woman to wear trousers was frowned upon. Uniforms take away choice, so whether a skirt or trousers, what does it matter, you're not choosing what you want to wear anyway. Wearing a skirt doesn't make you a girl!

So do you think all pupils should be allowed to wear skirts?

What about boys being pushed into trousers if they would rather not?

Yes, give everyone the choice of trousers or skirt, that's equality!

I think its to stop girls wearing skirts just past their knicker line

Trousers are an easy, sensible solution to the multiple issues that school skirts present. It's not about making the girls more like boys (weird notion), it's about practicality.

This was my first thought. Oh how the tables have turned.

Skirts, trousers and shorts should all be an option for school uniform in my opinion. Yes skirts and shorts aren’t appropriate in some work places but in other work places they are, school isn’t work so it’s swings and roundabouts. Appropriate length should be enforced sensibly, a skirt being a cm or two shorter than it should be shouldn’t be a huge issue, but by all means deal with those with their underwear nearly on show or wearing short shorts. Maybe just make the persistent offenders wear trousers rather than a blanket ban for all.

But telling everyone they have to wear trousers, regardless of gender, isn't?

When a school has girls who refuse to understand that wearing their skirts so short that their thong and arse cheeks are on display isn’t empowering, then they have every right to enforce a trousers only rule.

This isn’t a boy problem, this is a girl problem. It’s not appropriate to be walking around with your arse on show. I don’t understand how this has become ‘fashionable’ or why girls want to sexualise themselves in this way. Driving past our local secondary schools at the end of the school day is awful. Yes women and girls should wear what they want, but walking down the street half naked isn’t a good idea.

A school banning skirts is probably fed up of the teachers wasting time on asking girls to dress appropriately.

A local school banned skirts last year. They had a LOT of issues with upskirting and posting videos and photos on social media. I can see why they have changed their uniform policy.

I know this doesn't necessarily answer your question, but I was a supply teacher and often had conversations with girls about skirts, never in a "get that rolled down" way - I usually had much bigger issues than that so let it go. One girl had hers excessively short, like literally didn't quite cover her bum short. I asked how long it was if she didn't roll it, so she rolled it down, and it was still ridiculously short (although actually covering the bear minimum this time). She thought it was horrific. I just thought that perception is a really interesting thing.

On occasion, in schools where girls could wear trousers but very very few did, I'd ask why they didn't really wear trousers. One was my old school and I'd say it was close to 50/50 when I was there, now it's a tiny amount who wear trousers. Just after I left, they introduced blazers. The blazers was the reason - they thought blazers and trousers made them look like boys. A lot happily wore jeans etc outside of school, so it wasn't a general objection to trousers.

Not really. I think it makes a difference. Like I said my teenage DD wears shorts under hers and long socks or tights. Hardly lacy thongs!