AIBU to think school skirt bans undermine choice rather than equality?

[BadBadCat]

AIBU to think banning school skirts reinforces the opinion that to be equal, women need to be more like men.

I don't fully understand the reasons behind banning skirts in the drive for equality. I can only think that there are other reasons behind it that are not being made explicit by schools- maybe to eliminate up-skirting issues, to avoid having to deal with girls wearing inappropriately short ones, to eliminate the issue of transgender boys wearing skirts etc.

However, in my opinion, removing the choice of a skirt, which has been the traditional wear for women and girls and enforcing trousers, suggests that men's traditional attire is superior to women's. I'm all for girls wearing skirts if they choose, but I think it should be a choice. Schools saying they want to ensure comfort for all is disingenuous in my eyes because girls who feel uncomfortable in skirts can wear trousers if they wish.

It seems to me another removal of women's rights,

What do you all think?

I think we are many decades away from trousers being men's clothes. They are a unisex garment worn by women for style, comfort and practicality, and the point when they became so was actually significant for our equality.
I think its worse in equality terms to designate skirts as for girls. They are rarely a more practical choice over trousers and if girls have the choice to wear something for aesthetics over practicality then the choice should be open to boys too. Otherwise we are saying that the aesthetics of appearance are a girl thing.
The school has chosen to remove the choice for all, so I see no inequality here.

Absolutely agree there should be a choice, especially in summer when it's warm. I have 1 DD who would prefer to wear trousers and 1 would prefer skirts.

As a pp said, if its to stop boys upskirting, it's just another example females having the consequences for males poor behaviour, which is appalling.

This.

It's also a bit 'hmm' on religious discrimination grounds...some Muslim, Orthodox Jewish, and Christian girls may feel uncomfortable in trousers.

Sure people could say not to apply to that school them but you don't always get your first choice of school.

Part of the problem is that we still continue to force gender on things like clothing, toys, films etc. Trousers are no more a boys item than trainers and tshirts. If anything, wearing trousers has historically been male privilege, boys have never had to worry about flashing their knickers in public due to a gust of wind, or struggling with self esteem about leg size/shape/hairiness.

Levelling the playing field by having all kids in the same trousers and jumper/blazer doesn’t take from girls, it prevents this and future generations from having to deal with the ridiculousness of a totally unsuitable item of clothing that’s forced onto them because of outdated attitudes.

You don’t see female paramedics, firefighters, even shop and supermarket workers, wearing skirts. They’re totally impractical for most activities. Girls and women have been disadvantaged due to the “feminine” clothing for decades (just look at sports people and the rules around their clothing!) and in schools the messaging around skirts always ends up teaching girls that what they wear is more important than what they do.
We finally start to overcome all this BS and people complain about it being erased. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Eh? Lots of uniformed workers have elements of choice in their clothing! Cabin crew, nurses, traffic wardens, postal workers, rail staff, canteen workers, supermarket workers etc. etc. can all be seen choosing a skirt.

You’ve stated the very good reasons for removing skirts from the uniform in your OP which far outweigh the ‚removal of choice‘ issue. Women have been wearing trousers for years, even in the workplace, so I would never interpret the ‚no skirt‘ policy as making girls dress like boys. Schools have had ties for years, which using your logic is even more like making girls dress like boys as it’s uncommon for women to wear ties. What’s the difference?
Most schools have jewellery and makeup rules which you could argue mainly affect and take choices away from girls but are also rules for good reason.

There are very valid reasons for not having skirts as part of the uniform and that’s good enough for me

It’s probably to keep me from looking at teenaged girls underwear. Which I’d be very grateful for, because outside my house at 8:30 and 3:30 looks more like a red light district than a housing estate as hundreds of girls walk past with their underwear on show.

I’m not much of a prude, and I’m all for expressing yourself - but I don’t want to see the knickers (and hopefully nothing more) when skirts are rolled up so high bums are on show. I often think the local school should ban skirts for the dignity of the girls, who from what I see of older women, would not be in a skirt that short after they turn 18 or 20.

Can't make your money off forcing parents to buy the overpriced and very specific school authorised uniform if you did that.

Teenage girls tend to try and display their crotch & butt cheeks constantly. No one wants to see this.

Girls constantly roll the skirts up. In the past schools would make girls kneel to check their skirt hit the floor, or a teacher would be going round with a ruler which you'd probably get hit on the hand with if the skirt wasnt the required length.

There were grumbles about this.

Schools brought in branded skirts/kilts that couldnt be rolled up and were matronly and unfashionable, not to mention expensive.

There were grumbles.

Schools required trousers.

People are still grumbling! No one wants to see anyones arses at school. Trousers are fine. If you dont like the sort of draconian discipline required for girls to wear their skirts at a smart, boring, unsexy length, trousers are the better option.

I dont think trousers are a man's item these days

I think men should embrace skirts..

I wear trousers most of the time, but I axtually find skirts easier to get to fit right and im more comfortable in them on my period and in the heat.

Bullshit do you have ‘hundreds’ of girls walking past your house showing underwear looking like prostitutes twice a day. A short skirt doesn’t mean you look like a sex worker, and these are still kids. It’s not ‘equality’ to over shame and exaggerate about young girls this way.

The whole history of female attire is so complicated. Trying to solve the issue by banning the skirt doesn't work.

I agree women should be allowed to wear what they like but so much of it is designed for the male gaze. Then people say "no I do it for me, not for men" but what they enjoy wearing is stuff that is for the male gaze. Mens clothing is on the whole practical and they don't see the need to flash their arses. That's because men and boys are comfortable in their power.

If course biology and evolution have a lot to do with it too and like most things it's all about procreation. It's also about misogyny a lot of which has been internalised by women.

Having said all that I look terrible in most trousers and prefer skirts and dresses.

Until teenage girls dont believe miniskirt are appropriate for school (or work) there needs to be guidance in place.
I really dont want to get flashed by some teens knickers as they walk up the stairs.
If too many girls go for skirts that are too short, yes, trousers need to be the default.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes - choice is taken away

The op herself has omitted one of the reasons that are alluded to as to why trousers are not being enforced for girls.

The same reason that my sons Hawaiian pizza only has pineapple on it !

They don’t look like prostitutes, they’re clearly school girls - and tbh there was less underwear on show when we had a red light district.

But there are certainly hundreds of girls who walk past with their underwear on show every day. That’s not an exaggeration. I’d video it and upload it to prove my point, but I that wouldn’t be acceptable behaviour.

I’m normally driving past in my car so at a closer height to their waists than if I was walking, but it is actually genuinely shocking how many knickers you can see.

Maybe so they don't "choose" to come to school with arse cheeks in show.

Then why does it look like a red light district?

You must live in quite a special place, this just isn’t the case where I am and I don’t believe for a second there are hundreds of girls showing their knickers every day. Odd that non of them wear bags, coats, blazers etc, all of which would hide knickers even if the skirt is very short. Maybe keep your eyes on the road rather than knicker spotting

Does that mean the female teachers at this school will also not be allowed to wear skirts OP?

Trousers are a unisex item of clothing and a perfectly acceptable choice for a school uniform. I don’t see it as my right to wear a skirt, it takes nothing away from my sex. I don’t see it as any different from a school specifying a blazer, or a jumper.

I think it is because teachers are fed up of wasting time telling girls their skirts are too short. As you say it also bad the advantage of preventing up skirting. It seems like a good idea to me.

Skirts restrict girls' movement. In primary schools we see how girls' physical play is impacted by having to be "careful" about showing their knickers when they climb, do handstands or whatever. Lots of girls come to school in shoes which are wholly inappropriate for any kind of physical play, whether in early years free flow settings or primary play time.

Shorts or joggers with trainers allow girls to be playful rather than guarded.

Presumably female teachers don’t wear the school uniform

The compromise is maxi skirts. They wear them at Rugby School (fee paying boarding school) and the girls seem to cope. Apparently they voted to keep them after there was some question over them. They are long grey and pleated, very smart.