AIBU to think school skirt bans undermine choice rather than equality?

[BadBadCat]

AIBU to think banning school skirts reinforces the opinion that to be equal, women need to be more like men.

I don't fully understand the reasons behind banning skirts in the drive for equality. I can only think that there are other reasons behind it that are not being made explicit by schools- maybe to eliminate up-skirting issues, to avoid having to deal with girls wearing inappropriately short ones, to eliminate the issue of transgender boys wearing skirts etc.

However, in my opinion, removing the choice of a skirt, which has been the traditional wear for women and girls and enforcing trousers, suggests that men's traditional attire is superior to women's. I'm all for girls wearing skirts if they choose, but I think it should be a choice. Schools saying they want to ensure comfort for all is disingenuous in my eyes because girls who feel uncomfortable in skirts can wear trousers if they wish.

It seems to me another removal of women's rights,

What do you all think?

Teachers have better things to do than look at girls arses.
No it's about teachers having better things to do than battle with girls who are wanting to show their bum. No one should be showing their bum in a school.

Your original point was about skirts. Start another thread if you want a discussion about dresses.

Taking away choice doesn't create equality. Would the teachers be more equal if the women were required to wear a shirt and tie like the men? I don't think so! It removes the women's rights to express their gender. Whether you like it or not, gender is expressed through appearance, through the way we style our hair, the clothes we wear etc. After all, a trans person only differs to their sex at birth through clothes, hair, makeup etc. Skirts are the only item of clothing that differs between boys and girls in most schools and taking away that choice to express that difference takes away the girl's identity. Why else are girl's choosing skirts over trousers if not as a way of expressing that difference? They roll their skirts up because they are of an age where they are becoming aware of their sexuality and that the way they dress affects their desirability to the opposite sex. They are expressing that growing awareness and playing with it. Girls have done this or similar forever! It's normal. It's up to adults to explain to them why this might not be the best way dress which is why schools enforce a moderate skirt length- the difference is fewer parents seem to think they play a role in helping the school with this these days so it's more tricky for them to police. Enforcing identical clothes for boys and girls is not the way forward.

I was going to reply with the same thing! I hated wearing skirts, felt so alien and uncomfortable but females were forbidden to wear trousers.

Yanbu

Its okay to be female and like skirts

Its also okay to be female and like trousers

Wearing trousers doesnt make you any more worthy of respect than wearing a skirt does

I think its a kind of forced modesty - thats the way the country is going tbh

Yup. Teachers are told by the senior leadership team that they have to enforce uniform and held to account if they don't. So instead of teaching exam content, they're busy arguing with Evie about why she needs to roll her skirt down OR go to her head of year who will decide what the consequence is.

It's up to adults to explain to them why this might not be the best way dress which is why schools enforce a moderate skirt length
I think that's already been tried and hasn't worked, so trousers are the way forward.

Away recently and saw school goers (secondary level it looked like) with jog pants and polo shirts. There was a crest on the polo shirts. Same for boys and girls, looked fine and very equal to me! Not sure about the footwear, but that could be negotiated!

Jog pants have elasticated waists and lots of room in the thigh/hip area so would suit most shapes. I'm a testament to that with my weird shape for trousers!

The girls have brought the skirt ban on themselves. It’s all because they can’t be trusted to wear skirts that aren’t skin tight and about 10 inches above the knee. They look absolutely awful.

At least boys get on with it where girls need to have some existential crisis of how they look and how hard done by they are

School isn’t the place to express their growing awareness of their sexuality and how to use it, or to express their gender awareness. And trousers and shirts for girls are fitted differently than for boys so they can still look feminine, same for blazers. School is actually for education funnily enough.

The entire concept of a uniform is that it takes choice away. Women and girls choose to wear trousers all the time in everyday life - why is THIS not somehow symbolic of traditional male clothing being "superior"?

No one every seems to be up in arms that boys don't get the choice to wear skirts.

Thank you! I was starting to feel like I was going mad and my eyes must have been deceiving me! It’s literally an unavoidable crowd of short skirts and underwear on show come 3:30 on my road!

At least the ones around my way have decided it's autumn now and are wearing tights.

But they don't look comfy either. Crotch skimming skirt, tights and tiny ballet flats. Yesterday it was raining and they must have been soaked walking home like that.

Hmmmm. I worked in Spain for a bit. The boy fashion there was skin tight trousers. They bought girls trousers because they were tighter. Poor teachers! Anatomical definition of teenage boys times 20 in the classroom. Not to mention the muscle shirts (no school uniform there) which offered flashes of adolescent nipple. Not what you need when you're teaching pythagorean theorem.

The consensus appears to be in favour of trousers for girls uniforms. I would definitely agree and it should be mandatory now. I'm sick of seeing that tarty look every morning on most of the girls in a competition to see who can get the shortest look. They might as well be wearing a belt only.

Teachers have more to do and are far too qualified to have to monitor the visibility of girls' knickers. Come on!

All uniforms, by definition, undermine choice. That's the whole point of them. They are literally designed to make everyone look the same. Making girls wear trousers is no different from making them wear any other item they haven't chosen.

Having women wear trousers is not 'being more like men' in any case. Trousers shouldn't be seen as a men's garment and women are not mimicking men by wearing them.

So now boys sexually assaulting girls isn't dismissed as, 'boys being boys', we need girls to cover?
There's never been such thing as unisex, it was always male. We are going backwards.

I think banning skirts is really sad, I always felt much more comfortable in a skirt when I was a teenager and always wanted to hide my body.
When I was at school having a big bum was unfashionable and ugly, with trousers they either show your whole bum outline or you have to buy them to be looser on the bum and have parachute legs. Skirts are so much more adaptable to different bodies.

The removal of skirts from school uniform is nothing to do with sexual assault.

It's to do with it being inappropriate to show your underwear in a professional environment.

The whole point of skirts/trousers is to cover private areas (as well as for warmth of course). They become useless if they don't cover.

Wear the skirt at the intended length, no problem.

I'm not a supporter of school uniform at all, much less the rigid adherence to minutiae of the colour of stitching on shoes or how many stripes are showing on a tie (most pointless item of clothing ever invented).

But, whatever my opinion of it, it's baked into UK culture. It's unlikely to go away because it's a tangible (if wrong) indication of the measure of discipline in schools. Meantime, bullying continues unchecked.

Trousers are not male attire. Traditionally, some men have worn skirts. If you have to have 'uniform', the same for everyone sounds fair to me. The clue is in the word 'uniform'. There isn't a choice, because by its very nature uniform removes it.

This is all well and good in their own time, and I believe young people should be able to express themselves through their clothing, just as adults do. However, policing skirt lengths can be time-consuming and may take away from valuable learning time. I think many schools have tried to enforce these rules, but when pupils choose not to comply, it can become an ongoing distraction. In that respect, it's often simpler and more practical to maintain a standard uniform policy for everyone.

I don't think it's appropriate for girls to wear skirts so short you can see their underwear. It's trampy and not becoming of a respectable young woman.

And let's be honest. At a mixed school the boys will definitely either feel uncomfortable or be tempted to look (which is perfectly normal). Teachers will feel uncomfortable.

From my experiences at the grammar school. The all girls school the girls dressed fine. At the boys school (with the mixed sixth form). The girls dressed normally.

So why is it that girls now wear their skirts so short that you can see their underwear (although I've not seen the girls round my area wearing them that short)?

I remember rolling my skirt up back in the day (and it was an all girls school so nothing to do with boys) and my dd rolled hers up too just a few years ago but I don't remember seeing her pants and mine certainly never showed! I also don't recall my teacher wasting time measuring skirt lengths or even mentioning it TBH.

Why is it now the Bain of a teacher's life?

What well behaved you and your DDs were. Rolling up your skirts to show off and look cool.

Glad I didn't do this (I went to school in India.) and glad my DDs never went to school flashing. Some of us know how to dress respectfully!