School children should receive free bus travel before pensioners?

[Itchthescratch]

My child is starting a school where it will cost around £2k for bus travel. This school is local and one of the closest schools to us. The other schools close to us are much worse in terms of opportunities and academic outcomes. I can afford the bus fare easily but I worry that some poorer families will really struggle to send their children to the higher achieving school because of the cost.

I understand that there isn't an endless pot of money but surely it would make sense to give school children free travel ahead of other groups like pensioners? School children are statistically much more likely to suffer from poverty (child poverty is almost double pensioner poverty)and it seems crazy that we aren't supporting social mobility whilst we let all pensioners travel for free on buses.

Ok. We have a lot of school buses in our area, and not much actual public transport. There are no buses other than school buses that go past my child’s school anyway. But it’s the council setting the charges. If my child had gone to the school that is marginally closer to use but is out of area, we would have qualified for free transport although there is no transport there anyway. It’s a bit of a weird system.

Awful, eh?

I’m going to be moving in a few years time and had my heart set on a beachy part of my city. However I’ve discovered that the bampots from the school where I work (I love them really!) all congregate there. If not for the free bus passes, they’d be WAY more likely to just to stick to their own area (where school is).
Retirement plan thwarted 😭🤣

My mum in her 80’s has her state pension, small part of my dad’s pension, and a tiny private pension, literally £35 a month. All this takes her to approximately £1,500 a month, so she pays tax.
Not a massive amount to live on. She has a small amount of saving.
Most wealthy pensioners have made sacrifices to be wealthy pensioners.

Some people don't have the option to put their kids to better schools unless that school is a private school. I live in an area that isn't completely deprived but has large pockets of deprivation. There are three secondary schools in my home town. One RC and two non denominational and that's it.

I have no idea what the process is for trying to get a place outside the catchment area but when a relative of mine was teaching there were a lot of requests to place at that school because it had a good reputation (primary school).

Those requests weren't always guaranteed. It made sense for me to go to my local high school -within walking distance of my house. My results weren't brilliant but I did well enough to go to uni as did my brother. I know several people who I went to school with who did very well in their Highers, five As or better and a friend's brother who lived in a very deprived area of our home town has a PHD.

I know someone who's daughter went to high school in one of the most deprived areas of my home town and to the worst performing school and she has a first class honours degree and two Masters.

The best performing school in my town has 36 per cent of pupils obtaining five Scottish Highers or more. Its around 125th in the Scottish league table. My old school is in the low 200s. However both are improving year on year.

The next towns results seem to be a lot better -but I have no idea if someone wanted a place there, if they would get it.

Through the bus windscreen apparently. I personally don't think free travel for kids is working in Scotland and that doesn't mean I don't understand the reasons why it was brought in. It's the minority spoiling it for the people using it responsibly. I think there should be a cheap fare cap for kids and the kids who come from poorest households should absolutely get free travel.

It is being abused by some kids and they are causing havoc. Because there's no limits on when they can use the ticket some of them are spending lots of times on buses in groups. I actually got off a bus the other day because I felt quite intimidated and I don't feel like that often on public transport

Why should one group suffer at the expense of another?

you chose to send your child to a different school. If you had sent your child to the school you had being allocated then you would have had free travel.

a child that wants to do well at school will do well at school. Teachers have only got about four and half hours a day to teach, the rest is down to the child/parent and that’s all state schools. Have you looked into private schooling?

I’ll be paying income tax until the day I can’t.

But pensioners are scroungers apparently.

And your point is, you could be earning £1500 a month working in a supermarket and you would pay tax. Don't believe The Fail and The Excess about how much pensioners need to pay for their winter holidays and cruises which are apparently essential. By the way I'm a pensioner, I do have a decent amount in a pension scheme and other investments, but can live quite well, drink too much, run a car and go on holiday twice a year for just a little more than my state pension. The one thing I do know is that should I require care in the future, I can afford it, so won't need somewhere funded by social services that reeks of over cooked cabbage.

In Scotland free school bus travel is provided if you over 2 miles from your assigned school. If you choose a school on religious grounds that is outwith your allocated area free transport is provided. And, this is the hilarious bit, if you walk quarter of a mile to school pick up and get wet then bus is rerouted so pick up is about 50 yards away. That happened where I live. Parents complained kids got wet.

I regularly use my bus pass. School children will only use the bus before 8.45 and after 3pm. By using the bus between these hours it keeps the timetable or the bus would only run a few hours a day. The bus I get is almost a social as pensioners use it regularly from the local villages. If missing we check up they are OK. For some it is the only human interaction they have all day or even week. School children can/should be able to walk a reasonable distance. Many OAPs have limited mobility and unable to carry shopping etc. Free bus passes encourage older people to give up driving as well - surely you agree that could be a positive Outcome?

i imagine getting wet happens a lot in some places in Scotland. It certainly does where I holiday!

All that happens is that kids stand looking at their phones . Would do them more good to walk quarter of a mile even if raining.

It would never cost a child in my area 2k a year to go to a school outwith the catchment area even if kids didn't have free bus passes. The adult fare for unlimited travel for a week here is 22 pounds and that covers more than 3 miles. And yes some families can't afford 2k a year to get to a decent school but if a family is on the breadline they've got more to worry about generally than finding 2k bus fare.

Of course there's a strong argument for kids getting free travel but it should not be at the expense of pensioners. Scotland has managed to give free travel to both. I have a bus pass (disability) and it's been a lifeline for me.

The issue is people being rinsed by bus companies. If I were to pay a fare to my mum's house one way it would be 2 quid and she lives two bus stops away. First in my area stopped returns so it's better to buy an all day or weekly ticket.

The 2 quid cap in Scotland can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Before I had this bus pass I went on a bus twice a week if that because I literally could not afford it.

Lucky you, so on just over £240 a week you can pay all your bills, go on holiday twice a year, drink too much and run a car. My mum must be squandering all her money as she can’t do these things.

My original point was that not only wealthy pensioners pay tax.

I agree, my DDs school is over £1k a year to use the bus, and I work part time to be able to drop her off and pick her up as it's 5 miles from our home (literally in what was until then a field).
I'm not earning enough to be able to afford the bus fare. People don't believe it's £1k, and when I was at school the bus was proportionately a lot cheaper. If she could get the bus, I could work 30hrs a week instead of 18hrs and therefore pay more taxes, so it would make sense.
I know it's probably my middle-class-ness, but I also don't personally know any pensioners in need of their bus pass. My dad uses it to get some exercise rather than rely on driving door-to-door (excellent idea), but he doesn't need it as his pension income is around double DP and I's combined income.

If it’s five miles away it can’t be her local school?

No, it’s unlikely to be. Where did the locals go before this school was built in a field?

I wouldn't say 2 miles is a reasonable distance for an under eight year old to walk plus the 2 miles home . What about in winter in the snow , rain or the fact t hat it's getting dark by that time . I say this as someone who got the bus the 5 miles to school alone from the age 6 in the 1950s .

I agree that school ch I ldren should get free bus fares to school and back , most pensioners don't need it .

That's been the law for years.
It's more generous in Scotland as councils provide transport over a mile for primary and over two for secondary.
But the Act says two and three.

It's such a huge disadvantage for a young child to walk that distance before and after school. It means that they will have less time for extra curricular activities and to play with their friends. Less time for homework and just being able to unwind after a long day. It means that they might often get to school quite wet and cold in the depths of winter.

An eight year old is significantly shorter than an adult so a 2 mile walk for them is different than a two mile walk for an adult with double the leg span. It would be around 12 thousand steps both ways which easily fulfils their step requirement it itself without factoring in play time and other walking the child is likely to do. Only 20% of adults walk over 12k steps a day so most people commenting that these kinds of distances are easy are complete hypocrites.

Where I live people use scooters and bicycles - the issue is if there aren’t safe routes. Councils should be planning safe cycling routes rather than this whole bus/cars for all. It is unhealthy and bad for the environment and costly.

It's legislation. I used to deal with parents like you. We all took turns as it was very wearing. Always the same ones.

Not catchment, but the next nearest. Her primary always had the pupils split between the two. Nearest is 2.5 miles away. However when DS was there we ended up taking them to tribunal, so definitely not an option.

I don't care if it's legislation. That doesn't make it right. If this was the case then people wouldn't have argued against and successfully brought about changes in legislation that made homosexuuality a crime or protected slavery. I'm sure the protests against these laws were very wearing for those who were in change of enforcing them at the time but that doesn't make the protests wrong.

That’s why you pay transport.