School children should receive free bus travel before pensioners?

[Itchthescratch]

My child is starting a school where it will cost around £2k for bus travel. This school is local and one of the closest schools to us. The other schools close to us are much worse in terms of opportunities and academic outcomes. I can afford the bus fare easily but I worry that some poorer families will really struggle to send their children to the higher achieving school because of the cost.

I understand that there isn't an endless pot of money but surely it would make sense to give school children free travel ahead of other groups like pensioners? School children are statistically much more likely to suffer from poverty (child poverty is almost double pensioner poverty)and it seems crazy that we aren't supporting social mobility whilst we let all pensioners travel for free on buses.

A lot of bus companies offer some sort of unlimited daily or weekly bus tickets , they would definitely be cheaper than £10 a day. Unless your daughter is travelling on multiple different buses run by different companies I just can’t imagine the bus fare being that expensive.

In Scotland, kids get free bus travel. It has been a lifesaver for me, as my children didn’t attend catchment schools.
I’ve heard that Police Scotland are ruing the day it ever came about though! 😭 Bampot kids are now able to move around more freely, so it can lead to anti-social behaviour, not to mention County Lines mobility.

Affluent? No. Both of us worked, often in debt, we’d left school at 15, married and had kids young. DH was self employed, somehow managed to keep his old van, our only vehicle, on the road. I did temporary and part time work, paid reduced rate NI (Married Women’s stamp) and due to not having enough contributions, my state pension is around £110 a week. We lived in a northern town, housing was relatively cheap.

Not sure when you’re referring to but in the 70s and 80s in London this was definitely not the case. There was no free bus travel for all children.
Now my children are massively benefitted from Zip Oyster cards, which provide free bus travel among other things.

London needs public transport to work for all. There are far too many people and the air quality would be horrendous if more people drove. So the public is incentivised to use public transport from an early age. The free schemes are subsidised by full fare payers (the Tube is very expensive now), local councils and local government grants primarily.
It is certainly not all from some Central Government pot.

Yes exactly my point , whilst there are pensioners who are wealthy , there’s also just as many who are not , I have to do a part time job to supplement my my pension or I could not afford the basics . Taking away free bus pass causes isolation and independence 😞

I think conceptually workers always subsidised children and pensioners. However, if the pensioner demographic is the wealthiest overall now, then surely the wealthy pensioner demographic should be subsidising each other somewhat too eg all pay an inheritance tax and more tax (eg NI). That really is not a big stretch.

The wealthier pensioners will of course be paying income tax. Probably the ones that were higher taxpayers during their working lives. Inheritance tax too for many especially in areas where property is expensive.

What will they be inheriting?

Why pick on pensioners, the majority of whom aren't on massive pensions and often rely on buses to get out and about. If you choose to send your child to a better school then you have to accept that will incur additional costs. There will always be inequality, some parents can afford the extra tutoring some of the "better' schools require higher academic standard like grammar schools. The education system is not the fault of pensioners nor should they be penalised

I can see both sides of this argument, fortunately my DC were able to walk to school easily until Y9.

DM is widowed and in her mid 80s. If she didn’t have her bus pass she wouldn’t go out. She has a moderate income and is very nervous about spending.

The tube is not expensive (unless you're travelling from Leicester Square to Covent Garden) if you use a card to pay -doesn't need to be an oyster card, fares are capped at £11.70/day for as many journeys as you want in zones 1-4. TFL busfares are capped at £5.25/day.

I have nothing against kids getting free bus fares but all under 22s get free fares in Scotland and some of them spend their time after school roaming around on buses and causing havoc. There's a bus company in my local area that's had to pull one route because of rocks being thrown through a bus window. This week I was on a bus and a group of kids in the street threw a large object at the side window. I was waiting on a bus the other night and a group of kids got off one bus and were waiting on another. They started smashing bottles on the ground and I got a mouthful of abuse

I absolutely agree that free bus tickets should be given to families of children who need it -but the blanket giving every child a free bus ticket in Scotland is causing problems. Anti social ones

My mum is a pensioner and she's far from wealthy.

An adult bus ticket where I live would cost around 18 pounds a week to allow people to go 6 miles or so. How does it cost 2k a term for a child to travel 3 miles each way ?

I've seen a lot of anti social behaviour -Ive been v unlucky this week. Several buses I've been on have had groups of young kids around 13 acting up giving the driver abuse, other passengers abuse and chucking objects at bus windows. The 240 which serves Glasgow to Overtown is no longer going through one housing scheme because of objects being thrown through bus windows and another local company is having problems too.

I definitely agree, there’s no transport covered for over 16s in England, we are semi-rural and it’s currently £6 a day for dc to get to 6th form, no discount rates since the bus fare cap came in, I’m sure it’ll be a barrier for some families. The reduction in bus fare cap is definitely welcomed in our house, £10 a week is a real bonus.

I live in Blackpool and the high schools aren't that good, definitely wouldnt say 88%. I have to pay £46 a month for a buspass so my child can go to a decent school, that's my choice though as he's clever and wanted him to achieve his goals and not have to learn in the local school with all the little numpties that don't want to learn and disrupt lessons.

There's going to be a two pound fare cap across England from Jan 1 I believe. I'm aware that companies have to opt in. Surely that will cut some of the costs down.

In my area primary school kids who live more than two miles from their school qualify for free bus travel to school and for secondary school kids it's 3 miles.

I personally don't think it should be an either or situation. This was all caused by the buses being deregulated and they can pretty much charge what they like. In my area First bus have the monopoly. It's currently 11 quid to go from Glasgow Buchanan st one way to the airport. Prices are so high in some areas if there's a group of you you are cheaper getting a taxi. When I go to Southhampton Airport it's not even a fiver to go a longer distance.

That's the bigger picture. Not whether pensioners or kids should have free travel. There's unemployed people as well. How do you afford bus fare on a low income -you don't.

no they shouldn't. Pensioners have paid into the system and most aren't fit enough to walk or drive. If you can't afford it they can walk or cycle into school.

It’s not just the wealthier pensioners that pay tax, if your pension is above the tax free limit of just over 12,000 you pay tax. That is after paying tax most of their lives.

But contributions to your own pension schemes have been tax-free, a considerable benefit if you are a higher rate tax payer, and the capital growth in the scheme has not been subject to tax. You also have the attraction of the tax-free lump sum. I know how much I've paid into my scheme and it's current value is massively more, than I would have achieved by investing outside the scheme without the tax advantages.

If it’s a dedicated school bus, the cap doesn’t apply.

There aren't dedicated school buses to out of catchment schools. Here there is an 0800 go in the morning, 1700 return in the afternoon service to the college in a town 12 miles away (and places en-route), but anyone can use it for the normal capped fare. To another town, students use the regular "Worst Bus" service, if it turns up.

It’s to compensate for the additional tax we pay ;)