AIBU to think lifestyle expectations and spending habits have risen enormously?

[Hiredgun]

For context, I’m a late 30s millennial. Grew up in Scotland.

Back then, almost nobody had a brand new car. People went abroad once a year if they were lucky. Eating out was very rare, maybe a handfull of times per. Getting a new kitchen was rare as was buying most household items. Kids often got cast off clothes from their siblings. Coffee & wine were basic.

Fast forward to today and it’s unbelievable what I see now.

Almost everybody drives a brand new car

Some of my friends go on multiple holidays per year. One is just back from her 7th trip abroad.

People buy properties and spend six figures immediately renovating them.

People are very fussy with wine. One of my friends only drinks champagne if doing fizz. Another will only drink certain types of Italian red wine.

I have a friend who spent 3K on a coffee machine and he recently asked if the coffee I served him at mine was single source.

Another friend wants me to go on a golfing holiday for a stag do abroad. Basic cost is £3K as it involves a private chef on a boat.

And cheese…. one of my friends only buys cheese from a deli. It’s beautiful but they’re spending a hundred quid plus a month just on cheese.

Some of my friends eat out 2/3 times per week. That was an average in a year for lots of people when I was a kid.

AIBU to question this? I know some of it may be debt but perhaps people’s expectations have risen enormously? Anybody else seeing this type of behaviour.

But if they can afford it then what’s the problem? If a new cafe opened near me I would absolutely go and check it out to support w local business.

My friends are on a spectrum of income and we all have nice lives and can afford to do what we want within reason and without going into debt.

My Nan, born 1898, used to buy stuff on lay-by. Her generation loathed being in debt. People are no happier nowadays, are they? So many people with mental health problems.

Do they save though?

Yes, no debt apart from mortgages and regularly saving (careers spanning teaching to big tech).

Because these things used to be luxuries - they were more expensive proportionally to incomes whereas things like housing were a lot cheaper than they are now. And, in some instances, a car is very much a necessity. If you live rurally where there is one bus an hour which takes 90 minutes to get to the nearest town and the bus stop is a further 30 min walk away, it is unmanageable for most people.
Even living in a big city can be a problem if public transport is rubbish. For example, it would take me 2h on two different busses to make a journey to work. A journey which takes 25 minutes in a car. If someone had, say, two kids then taking a bus would mean 6 extra hours of wraparound care which would work out more expensive that running a car. Whereas, in the past, a person would be far more likely to live near their mother who hasn't worked and could look after the grandkids, for example. Or they may have been a SAHP themselves because one salary would be enough to support a family.
And they would spend their summer holiday in the UK whereas a weekend cabin in Devon is now more expensive than a week in Spain.
Pace of life changes and some things do become necessities as a result. And something which used to be a luxury is now cheaper than the things that used to be (and still are) a necessity.

Was it less dull, or the norm? I grew up in the 70's/80's and no, going for a coffee wasn't the norm and going to the woods or the beach as a family with tea, sarnies and cake was normal. It was about family time, it was lovely. I have never thought anything as more dull because of not buying a takeaway coffee!

You just hang out with rich people. These people have always existed, you just didn’t grow up with them or hang out with them before.

Also simple stuff like shops being shut on Sundays and Wednesday afternoons. Think about how much consumerism that reduces! And with no internet shopping on top of it. That's a big difference in our mindset for 'stuff' as well and our constant expectations.

It's two things.

Bank of mum and dad.

Priorities.

Houses thirty+ years ago are a pittance of what they are now. So Granny, potentially in her first house still (using mine as enough example) paid £1600 for hers. Wtf. It's now over £450k because naice area. When that's passed to mum and dad, who bought their house for £35k and it's now worth £1.2m, they can, if they choose, pass that straight to us. And £450k would clear our mortgage.

With circa £10k p/mth income, we'd be living the life of Riley with no mortgage.

As it stands, we have a fucking huge mortgage payment each month, and all our spare money goes on 3DC and the enormous renovations we are a year into, having bought "the worst house on the best street.". We could have bought a ready done new build for the same, and would have around £2k p/mth extra that we currently spend on materials etc. That would be a car payment, and we'd have the "new range rover." Our priority is having a beautiful house with a tidy profit to sell on in a couple of years. So we drive two oldish SUVs, but we own them.

People who bought before ridiculous house prices, or have inheritance, have thousands more disposable income just through circumstances.

Also people keeping up with "the Jones's, no one likes to think of other people having more than them so they get into debt rather than look like they can't afford the same lifestyle as everyone else...

Yet the people with real money, the ones who are absolutely loaded I find are the ones who can buy anything they want and yet they dont, because they don't need to show off their wealth as they are secure within them selves .

Try being late 50s and comparing your life to what is normal now to what was normal growing up. Its another world

Mention this to anyone though and you'll be accused of a race to the bottom/lowering standards/regression/stopping progress/why shouldnt people have nice things

Etc etc etc.

Exactly. So it was circumstance rather than superiority that meant people spent less on luxuries back then.

My Nan and Grandad saved up and bought a house for a grand in Hampstead. around 1950. That house would be worth into the millions now. Thing is, credit has caused massive house inflation. Grandad was a senior NCO in the RAF, and they got married accommodation, so they could save up to buy a house, and he got a nice bonus when he completed his 22-year service. However, I don't think saving up to buy a house would have been that unusual then.

I bet a lot could afford housing if they saved before moving out, rather than blowing their whole wage on nights out, flash cars, holidays, duck lips etc etc

You think your grandparents had a 'dull' life because they took a flask and packed lunch on trips out?

This is the exact example of the mentality I refer to in my post up thread.

I'm assuming your friends are very high earners @Hiredgun ? We're high earners and don't live like this at all so I assume your friends are all in the £150-200k + territory.

I have childfree friends who live how the OP describes but they have fewer outgoings because they don’t have DC.

Overall though OP I disagree. I can’t give my DC the same things that I had growing up despite me and DH having much better jobs than my parents had.

Both approaches are fine. It depends on what your priorities are.
My father spent his entire life saving for the rainy day, then dropped dead at 45 and his girlfriend pocketed his money before she even made a call to the family. If I can balance my daily costs, save, pay into my pension, and still have a bit of money left by the end of the month then I want to have experiences which make my life more interesting. This involves travelling and trying new places to eat. We are currently on a hunt for the best pub pie in the South West which brought me and my partner a lot of joy and laughter in the last few months. Of course, we could also make a pie at home to save money. Save for what, though?

Why do you have 4 cars...

Hasn’t keeping up with the Joneses always gone on though? Before social media. I remember my parents having friends who would get into debt for a new sofa or have a car they couldn’t afford when there was nothing wrong with the old one.

The culture has shifted and you only have to look at a couple of debt influencers on Instagram to see just how much inflated and normalised borrowing has to answer for.

I have £4k of credit card debt and £1200 was driving lessons, but the rest? Dribs and drabs over time.
Top up shops
Christmas treats and days out
The occasional dinner out
Stuff for the house - including a lot of plants and bulbs for the garden when we first moved in

I can't say I "regret" it exactly, especially the plants that bring me joy throughout the year every year, but it does strike me just how unfazed I was by knowing I couldn't afford something and buying it anyway!

When I see so many people online confessing to £15k, £20k etc on credit cards, it makes me feel so much panic for them. £4k is bad enough!!!
But it's just so normalised to get what we want when we want it and worry about the practically later.

I remember years ago booking flights on 0% PayPal credit and I had a solid plan for paying it off in the 4 months grace period, but then, on holiday I spent more than I anticipated, so I was short on the first month, then the second month I was recovering from the holiday, short again, and before I knew it the four months were up and I'd only made a small dent. It's very easy to get into those spirals!

My DD is in her 20s, and she went abroad in January for a sporting event and is going long haul in December, and she's also had three UK breaks (admittedly one was for a wedding). She also wears a fair bit of branded clothing and pays expensive club fees for a sport. DD and her partner have takeout once a week, frequent the restaurant/cafe scene on a weekly basis.

Having said that they earn good incomes, do live in a cheap area, own a modest house and they only have one car, which is 15 years old, so they aren't getting into debt but it still feels like there is some frittering of money.

I have never gone abroad twice a year (only every few years!), and eating out is reserved for special occasions.

I’m older but I’ve always had 2–3 holidays abroad every year since my son was a baby and he is now 33

I’ve had 2 holidays abroad this year one in Feb for 2 weeks one in June for a week and I’m going away in September for 2 weeks and I’m going abroad again next year in Feb for 2 weeks and 1 week in April

we both have new leased cars that are premium ones ( if that’s what they are called )

we regularly go out for meal several times a month

We have always been able to do this
we have no debt and no mortgage any more

I have regular beauty treatments probably spend around 300 a month on this

You’re missing the point that housing is so expensive now it’s almost impossible to live in a nice area with a stay at home parent. Both parents usually work now, have careers, more disposable income and get a car through work / car allowance.

Cutting back on coffees and Netflix subscriptions isn’t enough to make a significant dent in mortgage repayments unless you’re happy to live in a cheap area which often means a rubbish school on your doorstep.

Working parents have significantly less time now so eating out is more popular.

I cannot think of anything better or more appropriate to do with your money in your 20s, than travel, hobbies and nice meals with a partner. Those will be memories that last a lifetime.