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AIBU?

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AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?

100 replies

Hoppity80 · Yesterday 20:11

I realise this is probably a very naive question but I have just come back from a hol in France. We visited a mix of touristy and some very non touristy towns - in all of them the high street was thriving.

Lots of independent shops, alongside chains and cafes busy streets. There were also big out of town hypermarches too but they didn’t seem obviously to impact the town centres. Hardly any of the vape shop, nail bars and boarded up charity shops in our town centres.

My question is what are the French doing to achieve this that we are not? Are there tax incentives of some kind, if so, how does
the French gov afford it and why couldn’t we adopt at least some of this model for the UK?

OP posts:
Mixymaxymoxy · Yesterday 22:02

Pharmacies, boulangeries and schools keep small places going.

In France even minor medications like paracetamol are regulated and you can’t buy them anywhere other than pharmacies- they are not available in supermarkets, garages, corner shops etc. Paracetamol that costs 49p in the UK will cost €2,80 in a French pharmacy - and there are no cheap pharmacies as the govt sets minimum prices for medications. This, plus the French fondness for expensive herbal / homeopathic rubbish, and the fact that no one comes out of a dr rdv without a prescription for at least three products , means that even small towns can maintain a pharmacy, this is a vital service.

bababamama · Yesterday 22:03

Two reasons,rents are reasonable but most of all people still use them! We moan about the loss of high streets yet shop in supermarkets and online

CarrieOakie · Yesterday 22:05

Sometimesitsmyownfault · Yesterday 21:58

Course we have out of town shopping centres 🤣 and we even have B&M!
I’ve never read so much ignorance about France in one thread! For the most part, shopping in France for the day to day essentials is an endurance test. Obviously not in the cities, but most shops shut for two hours at lunchtime, the supermarkets open 9 - 7, and customer service is none existent.

You are so spoiled here in the UK!

Where? Ive clearly missed them and spent 6 weeks there this year travelling around slowly, 4 weeks last year. Ive just not seen out of town shopping centres with clothing, chemist, BnM etc

MandemChickenShop · Yesterday 22:05

Sometimesitsmyownfault · Yesterday 21:58

Course we have out of town shopping centres 🤣 and we even have B&M!
I’ve never read so much ignorance about France in one thread! For the most part, shopping in France for the day to day essentials is an endurance test. Obviously not in the cities, but most shops shut for two hours at lunchtime, the supermarkets open 9 - 7, and customer service is none existent.

You are so spoiled here in the UK!

zut alores!

Needmorelego · Yesterday 22:11

I googled and found a French B+M 😂
Random town in the middle of France - first one that was listed.
Up the road from Carrefour. Near Burger King, McDonald's and KFC 😂
Going to look on Google Earth to see what else is there....

AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?
Scoffingbiscuits · Yesterday 22:11

paomara · Yesterday 20:30

I reckon it's the pharmacies that bring the shoppers in to the high street. They are everywhere, the French must either be hypochondriac or get lots of medical and beauty stuff for free or reduced. 😊

The French also have no hang ups about using their colourful shopping carts, so many don't bother with a car, and the weekly markets, when they are over after a few hours bring lots of people into the streets afterwards also.

Great quality of life all round, but I don't live there, so the reality may be very different!

Recently, the top headline news on French radio all day was how a packet of paracetamol had gone down in price. I think they are pretty obsessed with health and medical treatment.
By the way, it turns out that a packet of paracetamol in France costs many times more than one here.

Needmorelego · Yesterday 22:18

Needmorelego · Yesterday 22:11

I googled and found a French B+M 😂
Random town in the middle of France - first one that was listed.
Up the road from Carrefour. Near Burger King, McDonald's and KFC 😂
Going to look on Google Earth to see what else is there....

I looked on Google Earth.
Massive out of town shopping complex.
Across from the giant Carrefour are loads of huge shops 😂

CaptianMunchen · Yesterday 22:33

I am in France currently and was in Spain an and Germany few months ago the contrast to home is stark.I loved the city I am from but it isn’t what it used to be.

The most chilling thing I read recently was that apparently the Romans who weren’t in Rome were unaware it had fallen just the slow ebb of declining infrastructure and poorer quality of life.

That is what I see in the UK . We are a busted flush. Corrupt to its core and drunk on free healthcare and benefits. Think next year I’ll holiday in Blackpool or Rhyl as they’re more of a shit hole than where I live and I won’t feel as low when I have to come home .

CarrieOakie · Yesterday 22:41

Needmorelego · Yesterday 22:11

I googled and found a French B+M 😂
Random town in the middle of France - first one that was listed.
Up the road from Carrefour. Near Burger King, McDonald's and KFC 😂
Going to look on Google Earth to see what else is there....

i wouldn’t think of that as out of town shopping

a supermarket and 3/4 fast food places
This is what I consider out of town shopping

AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?
Johnogroats · Yesterday 22:44

MandemChickenShop · Yesterday 20:15

no Amazon in France

Not true.

ChateauMargaux · Yesterday 22:48

I have lived in France for 15 years - the number of times I have sworn loudly when I have turned up somewhere and found it closed! Random holidays (yes, I could look at the calendar), not open until 09h30, closed early evening, never on a Sunday (but of course I know that), closed for two weeks holiday (I had to drive to 3 pharmacies in the middle of August - one hadn't opened yet - it was 9h30 already - and one was on holiday for two weeks), stock taking - what national chain closes it's branches for stock taking, petrol stations regularly run out of petrol, and the amount of moaning about how hard it is to get things, just things, clothes shops (outside of big cities - we do LOVE going to big cities to shop), and no... business costs are not lower and red tape is a huge barrier, I do not know how businesses in France get up and running or how they survive, but somehow they do - getting a meal outside of regular meal times is next to impossible, going to a shop during meal times - the same - apart from supermarkets, and there are plenty of supermarkets. Our local garage has recently changed their hours to 4 days a week, because they have enough work in four days (and a month off in August) to keep them going, but there are very few garages locally, it is very hard to book your car in for work and we have been waiting 2 months for parts to fix the air conditioning in our car - not amusing in this heat. As for tradespeople - finding an electrician, plumber, tiler.. very difficult. and I am always amazed at how cheap things are in England... life is expensive here.

I often find it funny how sacred lunch times are here - a friend and I went to a spa in the mountains, it was practically empty - she pointed out to me that no self respecting French person would be in a spa, over lunch time. And the motorways are a joy to drive on between 12 and 2 and of course, on Sundays, trucks are not permitted... and while I am on the topic of motorways, I know the English love a good moan about the motorway traffic on bank holidays, but the French take this to a new level.. most of the year, most days of the week, you can drive for hours and hours in really light traffic (Paris excluded - the phrase is all roads lead to Rome, in France, all roads and train lines lead to Paris) - but on certain days of the year - July and August holidays, everyone sets out on a Saturday... and in some areas, the routes to the ski resorts are the same... INSANE - in fact I saw a children's book recently, about going on holiday in the mountains - and one of the pages was about the queues at the toll booths.

But no.. I have no idea how these little shops, selling niche things and never seem to have any customers, survive in France. The concept of a charity shop barely exists - though friperie (secondhand for profit) shops are becoming more popular. I live in a village of 1,000 people - we have nothing. not even a bakery, but a fairly interesting Wednesday afternoon market in the car park of the sports centre. Next village along has 2,000 people, they had a shop a bit like an English corner shop - that has closed. They have a thriving pharmacy, a bakery, and three restaurants - one only opens at lunch time, Monday to Thursday. Recently, the town council provided space for a bike shop, a book shop (never has any customers) and a co working space, in an attempt to breathe life into the village.

tobee · Yesterday 22:51

Weirdly every time I’ve been through France the towns look totally dead. Even before the internet.

I remember driving through a mid size town on a Saturday lunchtime and there was no one around. Ghost town

Needmorelego · Yesterday 22:54

CarrieOakie · Yesterday 22:41

i wouldn’t think of that as out of town shopping

a supermarket and 3/4 fast food places
This is what I consider out of town shopping

That's pretty much what it was like.
Lemme see if I can screenshot.

NotAnotherScarf · Yesterday 23:01

Because you are wearing rose tinted glasses.

Many small towns/villages in France don't have great high streets despite the retirement age being 62 and a great state pension.

Plus delivery wise they are a decade behind the UK. Mainly because the people who work for £4 in hour are shipped over here

Needmorelego · Yesterday 23:03

@CarrieOakie it's hard to get a good angle from Google Earth but that shopping complex is massive.
What's inside the red line that I've squiggled on is basically the shops.
Massive Carrefour (red dot) on one side of the road with a huge shop called Conforama next door.
Across the road is a complex of about 15 large retailers plus more retailers further up the road.
This is just a random french town - population of just under 20 000 according to the internet.

AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?
AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?
CarrieOakie · Yesterday 23:04

Needmorelego · Yesterday 22:54

That's pretty much what it was like.
Lemme see if I can screenshot.

there was one on the outskirts of st Malo, that had a selection of shops along with a supermarket, there is a big hypermarket on the outskirts of Chartres, with shops all inside.

I can drive in 10 miles from home in various and find 5/6 out of town shopping centres

CarrieOakie · Yesterday 23:06

This is just a random french town - population of just under 20 000 according to the internet

I would expect the catchment area is much larger than the one town

Needmorelego · Yesterday 23:12

CarrieOakie · Yesterday 23:06

This is just a random french town - population of just under 20 000 according to the internet

I would expect the catchment area is much larger than the one town

Probably.
I was just genuinely curious when someone said they have B+M in France so I googled.
That town happened to be the first branch listed. I know nothing about that area of France (or much about France at all).
Just goes to show it isn't all independent bakeries and fresh food markets in France (which is what the stereotype is).

MrsMoastyToasty · Yesterday 23:17

Some time ago I read that UK retailers have to make a gross profit of 11% to cover their overheads like staff costs and utilities. In the rest of Europe they only need to make a gross profit of about 6% to make small businesses viable.

minipoodlemum · Yesterday 23:17

There are hundreds of out of town shopping centres, and Amazon and supermarkets are very well used. Someone has already covered why the pharmacies are so prolific - that is a huge difference. Also, the French place a very high value on buying fresh, good quality bread, patisserie, chocolates, cheese, meat etc from artisan shops rather than a supermarket.

SadiraOfTyr · Yesterday 23:20

They aren’t. Smaller towns and villages are really suffering. My French family’s village used to have a dépôt de pain, an epicerie, and a bar-tabac. All gone, and this is replicated across France outside of tourist areas.

pondplants · Yesterday 23:21

ChateauMargaux · Yesterday 22:48

I have lived in France for 15 years - the number of times I have sworn loudly when I have turned up somewhere and found it closed! Random holidays (yes, I could look at the calendar), not open until 09h30, closed early evening, never on a Sunday (but of course I know that), closed for two weeks holiday (I had to drive to 3 pharmacies in the middle of August - one hadn't opened yet - it was 9h30 already - and one was on holiday for two weeks), stock taking - what national chain closes it's branches for stock taking, petrol stations regularly run out of petrol, and the amount of moaning about how hard it is to get things, just things, clothes shops (outside of big cities - we do LOVE going to big cities to shop), and no... business costs are not lower and red tape is a huge barrier, I do not know how businesses in France get up and running or how they survive, but somehow they do - getting a meal outside of regular meal times is next to impossible, going to a shop during meal times - the same - apart from supermarkets, and there are plenty of supermarkets. Our local garage has recently changed their hours to 4 days a week, because they have enough work in four days (and a month off in August) to keep them going, but there are very few garages locally, it is very hard to book your car in for work and we have been waiting 2 months for parts to fix the air conditioning in our car - not amusing in this heat. As for tradespeople - finding an electrician, plumber, tiler.. very difficult. and I am always amazed at how cheap things are in England... life is expensive here.

I often find it funny how sacred lunch times are here - a friend and I went to a spa in the mountains, it was practically empty - she pointed out to me that no self respecting French person would be in a spa, over lunch time. And the motorways are a joy to drive on between 12 and 2 and of course, on Sundays, trucks are not permitted... and while I am on the topic of motorways, I know the English love a good moan about the motorway traffic on bank holidays, but the French take this to a new level.. most of the year, most days of the week, you can drive for hours and hours in really light traffic (Paris excluded - the phrase is all roads lead to Rome, in France, all roads and train lines lead to Paris) - but on certain days of the year - July and August holidays, everyone sets out on a Saturday... and in some areas, the routes to the ski resorts are the same... INSANE - in fact I saw a children's book recently, about going on holiday in the mountains - and one of the pages was about the queues at the toll booths.

But no.. I have no idea how these little shops, selling niche things and never seem to have any customers, survive in France. The concept of a charity shop barely exists - though friperie (secondhand for profit) shops are becoming more popular. I live in a village of 1,000 people - we have nothing. not even a bakery, but a fairly interesting Wednesday afternoon market in the car park of the sports centre. Next village along has 2,000 people, they had a shop a bit like an English corner shop - that has closed. They have a thriving pharmacy, a bakery, and three restaurants - one only opens at lunch time, Monday to Thursday. Recently, the town council provided space for a bike shop, a book shop (never has any customers) and a co working space, in an attempt to breathe life into the village.

This reminds me so much of the time I spent living and travelling in France 😂 I remember once I was travelling to an airport by train on a Sunday and I was practically in tears because I couldn’t find ANYWHERE open for food. I had to do an hour round trip to a carrefour that was open for a couple of hours - and that was in a city! If you are used to UK convenience France is a big culture shock I think, it’s not bad but I certainly found it a lot more hassle to do certain stuff that is easy in the UK. Opening a bank account - omg that was like a week’s worth of effort.

I get why people complain about the UK because it’s easy to whinge about somewhere you take for granted but, much as I love visiting France, living there gave me a new appreciation for the UK.

pondplants · Yesterday 23:27

Re pharmacies - I remember once I had to get the morning after pill on a Sunday in France and there was only one duty pharmacy open - this was in a city of about 500,000 people - so I had to schlep across town to get it and for my efforts I was given a lecture about using condoms and the kind of leaflet you would give a year 8 in Sex Ed from two very disapproving pharmacists 😂 honestly could have done with an anonymous out of town Asda dispensary at that point 😂

MrsKeats · Yesterday 23:33

Partly because the French like to buy quality products that are in season so don’t buy rubbish from bigger shops that are out of town like the British do. Farm foods would not be popular.

Dilemma999 · Yesterday 23:39

RocketLollyPolly · Yesterday 20:37

I’ve been on lots of holidays in France and haven’t noticed the busy high streets except for in large towns and cities. Throughout villages and any more rural areas there seems to be nothing at all except pharmacies and bread shops.

There’s always a coiffeur or beauty parlour too.