AIBU to ask why French high streets seem to thrive?

[Hoppity80]

I realise this is probably a very naive question but I have just come back from a hol in France. We visited a mix of touristy and some very non touristy towns - in all of them the high street was thriving.

Lots of independent shops, alongside chains and cafes busy streets. There were also big out of town hypermarches too but they didn’t seem obviously to impact the town centres. Hardly any of the vape shop, nail bars and boarded up charity shops in our town centres.

My question is what are the French doing to achieve this that we are not? Are there tax incentives of some kind, if so, how does
the French gov afford it and why couldn’t we adopt at least some of this model for the UK?

no Amazon in France

I'm pretty sure there is Amazon in France! It's just .fr not .co.uk.

I have relatives in a village in France and I think it's because lots of people prioritise cooking fresh and to do so, they go to butchers and greengrocers etc multiple times a week. I know some people do that here too but I think it's a lower proportion of people

Not tax incentives, but lower business costs and the government doesn't treat business profit as the government's to be taken while giving something back to the business owner.

I'm in Cyprus now and there is every type of shop on the high street . Anyone can set up a retail business , work hard, employ and assistant or 2 and have a good quality of life from the income. That's not possible in the UK. The only profit comes from economiea of scale from big business.

There is an Amazon in France my French relatives use it a lot.

Of course there's online shopping in France, what an idiot!

In Paris it's a reason that Brits would hate. Apartements are small with limited storage so you buy small packets and shop frequently on foot. Plus why would anyone eat stale food which means you shop multiple times per week and bread at least every day, often twice per day.

This only works in a 15 minutes city which is the work of the devil according to mumsnet and might mean you can't drive a giant car everywhere.

They work fewer hours and commute less, so have more time to shop

The decline of “La France profonde” - essentially rural France with traditional villages has been happening for a long time. The towns might be ok but once upon a time every village had a baker and a butcher and a bar.

you get lots of articles in le Monde (other newspapers are available) lamenting the decline of village life.
they have trouble getting doctors to work in rural areas aswell. The young people want to be in the cities.

https://www.thearticle.com/the-decline-of-rural-france

I reckon it's the pharmacies that bring the shoppers in to the high street. They are everywhere, the French must either be hypochondriac or get lots of medical and beauty stuff for free or reduced. 😊

The French also have no hang ups about using their colourful shopping carts, so many don't bother with a car, and the weekly markets, when they are over after a few hours bring lots of people into the streets afterwards also.

Great quality of life all round, but I don't live there, so the reality may be very different!

I think it varies. We have a house near a town in the south east and the high street there is pitiful, so many closed businesses. There’s currently not anywhere to buy fresh fruit and veg in the town centre, you have to walk 10 mins to the supermarket. Lots of boarded up shops. I think the difference is probably that they stay empty (although a lot of tattoo places have sprung up) rather than turning into dodgy shops.

the french prefer local shops and fresh ingredients. Brits prefer supermarkets

I’ve been on lots of holidays in France and haven’t noticed the busy high streets except for in large towns and cities. Throughout villages and any more rural areas there seems to be nothing at all except pharmacies and bread shops.

Do you think it might because you visited the nicer areas of France though? If you went to our local high street it is bustling but we are in a very touristy area!

What time do the French shops close?
Do they open Sunday?
One issue I find in the UK is in towns (even touristy ones) it's literally shutters down at 5.30pm or often earlier. Some independents close at 4 !
There are lots of shops/cafes I expect people would go to in the evening if they were actually open.

The French bloody love a pharmacy!

French businesses are more highly taxed than in the UK. VAT thresholds are lower and empoyment taxes are far higher

The weather -it’s easier to browse shops and sit outside with a coffee if it’s not raining

But in the UK our indoor shopping centres have died too so I am curious what the difference is.

I'm really not sure it's true tbh. I stayed near a not particularly touristy town in France recently and the town centre was OK but I wouldn't say 'thriving' - loads of empty shops just off the main square. The villages in the surrounding countryside were almost all totally devoid of shops too. I have to wonder whether the people who say that the French don't like supermarkets have actually been to France; it seems that every town of any size has a massive Leclerc, a huge SuperU, and an enormous Intermarche lurking on the outskirts; the one we stayed near was no exception.

More tax stays local, rather than going to central government, and also French government debt - they spend far more on public spaces and amenities.

@FudgeFudy yes didn't the French invent the Hypermarket?

I've been in decimated main shopping streets in France. There are lots of them, especially in the more agricultural areas with no attractions such as lakes/woods/campsites. Some of the more traditional manufacturing towns are also nearly empty of shops, including boulangeries.

might be loads of shops but none of the fuckers are open on a Sunday!

No they respect family times, i.e. all supermarkets and boulangeries shut at 12.30 on Sundays, ordinary shops don't open at all. Some don't open on Mondays. Saturdays are for sport. In Germany it is the same. Shopping is a hobby in USA and UK. Other countries do not have the same culture.

Bricks and mortar shops seem to be doing well in Germany and the Netherlands too and there are often very small shops which I think can only be a hobby for the owner, but who knows?

A friend lives in a town near Hamburg which has a similar sized population to where I live - and the shops are way better where she is. There's just no comparison.

DH and I were wondering the other day where we'd go locally for a new strap for a watch. The department stores used to have them, but they've all closed.

Yes small rural French towns are suffering in many ways. Issues with public services as well, doctor shortages etc.

I do believe Paris and perhaps some other cities have regulations to prevent what’s happened in cities like London and NYC where landlords ratchet up rents so small businesses can’t survive and all that’s left are estate agents, betting shops, and bank branches. The small shops can afford to keep going. Plus yes the French like their small shops. In more car oriented towns and suburbs you’ll find hypermarkets (I do believe Carrefour pioneered the format) but in Paris proper you won’t find that.