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1st cousin marriage

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Wiseplumnet · 26/08/2026 16:00

AIBU to ask your opinion on 1st cousin marriage?.I have read that the government is looking to ban it. I know it is more prevelent ( but declining) in the UK among people of Asian origin. I am not coming from a judgemental or racist angle. I am just interested to know how mum'snetters of all ethnicities feel about marriage between 1st cousin's. I know it used to be more common in the west at one time, apart from keeping money/property in families, people travelled less widely, so there was less choice of marriage partners.I worked with a girl ( White British) who was in a secret relationship with her 1st cousin and they are very reluctant to tell their family, so there seems to be a cultural taboo in 1st cousins being romantically involved.Genetic factors resulting in disabilities (statistically twice as many as in unrelated parents) is sometimes given as a reason for banning cousin marriage, however we have genetic screening now, and disabilities aren't always serious.As so many babies died in infancy before we had vaccines, better health care etc , it was probably difficult to differentiate whether the close relationship between parents was the cause of any disabilities their children . Speaking for myself,I can't imagine wanting to marry any of the cousins I was brought up with as they seem more like brothers to me, but I could understand why someone may be attracted to a 1st cousin who they first met as adults. Or does it give you the instant 'Yuk' ? Also is banning 1st cousin marriage the same as banning 1st cousin sexual relationships and children, or would that become illegal? Maybe there's no need for a legal ban as the tradition will just die out over time

OP posts:
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SnowFrogJelly · 28/08/2026 11:42

One of my family members married a cousin.. seemed to work out for them

ShitHoleDweller · 28/08/2026 11:43

Perhaps we could tax face coverings?

HRTQueen · 28/08/2026 11:47

SnowFrogJelly · 28/08/2026 11:42

One of my family members married a cousin.. seemed to work out for them

it is not about that it worked out for them

it is about the high risk to children then may have

Rubydobydo · 28/08/2026 11:49

The risk was recognised by medieval royalty:

Medieval royal marriages were heavily shaped by the Catholic Church's strict rules on consanguinity (blood relatedness) and affinity (kinship by marriage). 1]

Church Rules and Prohibited Degrees

  • Seventh Degree Rule: Until the 13th century, canon law forbade marriages up to the seventh degree of kinship, which cast a wide net over interconnected noble families. 1, 2, 3]
  • Redefining the Rules: In 1215, Pope Innocent III reduced the restriction from seven degrees to four, which legally allowed more distant cousins to marry without special permission. 1]
  • Method of Calculation: The medieval Church calculated kinship by counting generations up to a common ancestor, meaning even second cousins or more distant relatives often fell under the prohibited umbrella. 1]

Rules for Medieval Marriage - The History Jar

  I have been reading a Social History of Women in England 450-1500 by Henrietta Leyser  in between finding out about John of Gaunt’s retinue as it is sometimes easy to impose our own views and beliefs on the events … Continue reading →

https://thehistoryjar.com/2017/07/30/rules-for-medieval-marriage/

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 28/08/2026 11:53

Ovalframes · 28/08/2026 11:38

Sorry - I should have said the direct line of monarchs died out - the intermarriage being specifically to keep the crown.
Does the one on X have the chin?

Not at all. He just looks like a regular sort of fella.

He has a great sense of humour.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?q=x.com/EduardHabsburg&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjWjvjpk8OWAxVUT0EAHVz_D1QQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0M2QyplFsGiJRSV7fukQpf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Eduard Habsburg (@EduardHabsburg

Eduard Habsburg

Eduard Habsburg (@EduardHabsburg) on X

Author and host of The Habsburg Way. Father of six, speaker on family, faith, history, and tradition. Former Ambassador of Hungary to the Holy See.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://x.com/EduardHabsburg&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjWjvjpk8OWAxVUT0EAHVz_D1QQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0M2QyplFsGiJRSV7fukQpf

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 28/08/2026 11:54

SnowFrogJelly · 28/08/2026 11:42

One of my family members married a cousin.. seemed to work out for them

Oh, well, we don’t have to worry about it then. 🙄

Come on, try to think a little bit more about what we’re discussing.

TheCommonWoMan · 28/08/2026 12:39

I (white British as far back as we can go) am the product of a first cousin marriage. My paternal grandparents were born the same year and grew up together. Fell in love and married at some point. They have 3 children and 9 grandchildren (plus now a few great grandchildren).
We're not aware of any geneic issues amongst the descendants.
Not that I'm saying I approve, but it doesn't always have health implications.

x2boys · 28/08/2026 12:48

TheCommonWoMan · 28/08/2026 12:39

I (white British as far back as we can go) am the product of a first cousin marriage. My paternal grandparents were born the same year and grew up together. Fell in love and married at some point. They have 3 children and 9 grandchildren (plus now a few great grandchildren).
We're not aware of any geneic issues amongst the descendants.
Not that I'm saying I approve, but it doesn't always have health implications.

Yeah but i assume they were a one off and not repeated generations of first cousin marriage?
Anyone can have a disabled child i did but when its genetic repeated generstions of first cousins procreaiting is going to increase the risk massivley.

LifetimesAgo · 28/08/2026 12:49

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 00:38

No, but they show that the work being done in places like Bradford is effective.

The Born in Bradford study showed that rates of 1st cousin marriage where one partner is not British born have also fallen, though only by about a quarter over the 12 or so years of the study (previous figures were over the course of 30 years, 1st cousin marriages in the Pakistani community apparently peaked in the 1990s).

It’s not effective. There have been decades of education and yet the practice still continues. Failing to legislate against is needlessly condemns thousands more children to miserable existences while we do what, sit back and hope people’s brains engage and consciences miraculously appear? This isn’t the approach we take to other harmful activities like rape, murder, child abuse, assault, use of illegal drugs (to make them legal and hope “education” persuades people to stop it themselves) so why should this case be any different?

Armorlux · 28/08/2026 12:52

TheCommonWoMan · 28/08/2026 12:39

I (white British as far back as we can go) am the product of a first cousin marriage. My paternal grandparents were born the same year and grew up together. Fell in love and married at some point. They have 3 children and 9 grandchildren (plus now a few great grandchildren).
We're not aware of any geneic issues amongst the descendants.
Not that I'm saying I approve, but it doesn't always have health implications.

If you'd read even some of the previous pages you would understand that one off cousin marriage isn't the point at issue. The repeated inter marriage within the same family is the problem.

Presumably the grandchildren and great grandchildren in your family aren't planning / being told to marry each other too.
That's when the problem starts. Add a couple more generations and... bingo,they're more than cousins.

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:02

MaturingCheeseball · 28/08/2026 08:52

@AmnesiacsDream - well this would be good, BUT it was exposed that the NHS were advising of the pros of cousin marriage and advocating for not interfering in a commmnity’s cultural choices. Never mind the poor children resulting from this or the burden on the state.

I agree with pp that in Pakistan having a disabled child would be the family’s responsibility (as if was here some decades ago). In Britain there is huge medical input and benefits, so yes, if the womenfolk are staying ant home anyway then there are financial pluses to having one or more disabled children.

I hadn't heard the NHS had done that. Wonder how much more effective it could be if the NHS wasn't undermining the message?

Your second paragraph seems to be saying that Pakistani communities are incentivised in the UK to practice first cousin marriage in order to have disabled children for the benefits. Whereas in Pakistan where the families have to bear the full burden themselves they don't. Is that what you're arguing, there?

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:27

LifetimesAgo · 28/08/2026 12:49

It’s not effective. There have been decades of education and yet the practice still continues. Failing to legislate against is needlessly condemns thousands more children to miserable existences while we do what, sit back and hope people’s brains engage and consciences miraculously appear? This isn’t the approach we take to other harmful activities like rape, murder, child abuse, assault, use of illegal drugs (to make them legal and hope “education” persuades people to stop it themselves) so why should this case be any different?

MaturingCheeseball seems to be saying that the NHS has been undermining the education, so we could try it properly.

We do not criminalize all sorts of things that are dangerous and sometimes have tragic consequences for others and we often rely on education to try and minimize impact.

Drinking during pregnancy, for instance, leads to disabilities in far more babies than 1st cousin marriages. We haven't criminalised that, though that's rising and 1st cousin marriages are falling.

Huxon · 28/08/2026 13:30

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:27

MaturingCheeseball seems to be saying that the NHS has been undermining the education, so we could try it properly.

We do not criminalize all sorts of things that are dangerous and sometimes have tragic consequences for others and we often rely on education to try and minimize impact.

Drinking during pregnancy, for instance, leads to disabilities in far more babies than 1st cousin marriages. We haven't criminalised that, though that's rising and 1st cousin marriages are falling.

I remember a few years ago there were MNers who defended and saying a pregnant woman had every right to drink as much as she wanted during pregnancy and even had the right to do drugs as well.

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:37

Huxon · 28/08/2026 13:30

I remember a few years ago there were MNers who defended and saying a pregnant woman had every right to drink as much as she wanted during pregnancy and even had the right to do drugs as well.

A pregnant woman does have that right (at least for alcohol). It's not a good idea, though. Much like multi-generational 1st cousin marriage.

But making it criminal for any pregnant women to have any alcohol would be pretty authoritarian.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 28/08/2026 14:04

Some people just enjoy being contrary, i think. They’d argue black was white.
No one truly thinks that about pregnant women do they??

And you’d think this issue was pretty cut and dried, too. But no, somehow they’ve managed to find some sort of ambiguity in it.
Morons.

bafta16 · 28/08/2026 14:09

Ovalframes · 28/08/2026 11:28

The interesting point about the Hapsburgs is that the increasing physical deformity and mental damage was illustrated clearly and evidenced with each generation of intermarriage, eventually leading to the dying out of the family. It isn't really whataboutery IMO, it is a very simple explanation of the consequences of reproducing in a tiny gene pool.

It is whataboutery. The discussion is mostly around those of Pakistani heritage who wish to continue with this outmoded and cruel way of life. It may have had its uses economically and in terms of tribalism but please God, we have moved on from that.

LifetimesAgo · 28/08/2026 14:12

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:02

I hadn't heard the NHS had done that. Wonder how much more effective it could be if the NHS wasn't undermining the message?

Your second paragraph seems to be saying that Pakistani communities are incentivised in the UK to practice first cousin marriage in order to have disabled children for the benefits. Whereas in Pakistan where the families have to bear the full burden themselves they don't. Is that what you're arguing, there?

The evidence of the NHS saying that there are “social benefits to cousin marriage” was posted earlier in the thread. Absolutely disgraceful, given that eye-watering amounts of taxpayer money have been spent on treating the children born with genetic defects as a direct result of cousin marriages, who live miserable lives. It’s disgusting and irresponsible and anybody who cares about the welfare of children should be writing to their MPs about these attempts to normalise what has been proved by science beyond any doubt whatsoever to be extremely harmful behaviour condemning thousands of children to miserable, painful and short lives completely needlessly. It is disgusting that our health service is pandering to “cultural sensibilities” over scientific fact and implying to people that it’s ok to continue with this incestuous behaviour and condemn thousands of children to lives of misery when this is completely avoidable by simply marrying/ having children with someone who isn’t a close relative.

It is reminiscent of cases where the police and social workers have behaved similarly, prioritising “cultural sensitivities” over facts and child welfare, always with tragic consequences.

Public policy needs to be evidence-based. “Cultures” or religious beliefs etc have no place in determining what it should be: our laws exist to protect individual freedoms to the extent that they don’t cause unacceptable harms to others. When they do, individual freedoms are restricted to prevent this. This is the fundamental basis upon which we determine the laws of the UK and has been for centuries now. It’s not a perfect system, but this is the underlying principle and it works.

It is unacceptable and immoral and disgusting for our Government not to take action in this case where innocent children are being harmed needlessly and the scientific evidence is to unequivocal, and restricting this behaviour would have literally no drawback whatsoever: a clearer and unarguable case of the need to legislate against this deliberate harm of others is extremely rare. There is absolutely no excuse for allowing it to continue. As I said previously, our politicians should hang their heads in shame for not having legislated against it already. Decades of education have not worked.

Some people have written on this thread that “rates have reduced” but they haven’t fallen anywhere near as fast as they would if we take the sensible and obvious step to legislate against this. It’s incredibly simple to do by simply adding a few words to existing laws and not doing so (and instead simply waiting in the hope that rates might gradually reduce further on their own over many more decades) needlessly subjects thousands more children to completely avoidable harm. So what rational argument could there possibly be for us not to legislate against this obviously harmful behaviour, when we do so in every other circumstance where there is clear evidence of serious and avoidable harm, especially to children?

LifetimesAgo · 28/08/2026 14:15

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:27

MaturingCheeseball seems to be saying that the NHS has been undermining the education, so we could try it properly.

We do not criminalize all sorts of things that are dangerous and sometimes have tragic consequences for others and we often rely on education to try and minimize impact.

Drinking during pregnancy, for instance, leads to disabilities in far more babies than 1st cousin marriages. We haven't criminalised that, though that's rising and 1st cousin marriages are falling.

When there were public health campaigns setting out the scientific facts the communities practicing this incestuous behaviour accused the doctors and nurses of being racist and targeted them with verbal and physical intimidation and attacks.

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 14:20

LifetimesAgo · 28/08/2026 14:15

When there were public health campaigns setting out the scientific facts the communities practicing this incestuous behaviour accused the doctors and nurses of being racist and targeted them with verbal and physical intimidation and attacks.

Messaging takes time to sink in and become trusted (and sometimes it's just very clumsily done). One way or another the message has been getting through, though, because understanding about the risks of 1st cousin marriage has been increasing in younger generations.

GingerBeverage · 28/08/2026 14:35

Good thing we didn’t try the “messaging”
option for FGM.

zanahoria · 28/08/2026 14:36

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:37

A pregnant woman does have that right (at least for alcohol). It's not a good idea, though. Much like multi-generational 1st cousin marriage.

But making it criminal for any pregnant women to have any alcohol would be pretty authoritarian.

It would be authoritarian but the NHS campaigns against it in no uncertain terms and is not afraid to portray it as irresponsible

A new hard-hitting health campaign will urge women to avoid drinking any alcohol during pregnancy.

Mothers-to-be will be warned that their unborn child could be at risk of irreversible brain damage if they choose to drink alcohol.

NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde (NHSGGC) hopes to "set the record straight" after years of "mixed messages".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-41204220

We need the same vigour in a campaign against cousin marriage, no mixed messages, no cultural sensitivity, no pussy footing around worrying about stigmatising people just a hard hitting message stating the facts that kids from cousin marriages are twice as likely to suffer from genetic defects.

foetus

New campaign urges women to avoid alcohol in pregnancy

A hard-hitting new campaign hopes to set the record straight after years of "mixed messages".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-41204220

5MinuteArgument · 28/08/2026 14:40

LifetimesAgo · 28/08/2026 14:15

When there were public health campaigns setting out the scientific facts the communities practicing this incestuous behaviour accused the doctors and nurses of being racist and targeted them with verbal and physical intimidation and attacks.

Yes, it should be banned but I don't think it will be. The cowards who run this country would be way too scared to take any action.

So we'll just have to suck it up, foot the bill for severly disabled children who need 24/7 care until the communities who practise this finally get around to thinking it might not be a good idea.

EasternStandard · 28/08/2026 14:43

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 14:20

Messaging takes time to sink in and become trusted (and sometimes it's just very clumsily done). One way or another the message has been getting through, though, because understanding about the risks of 1st cousin marriage has been increasing in younger generations.

The law is a swift way to get a message across.

LifetimesAgo · 28/08/2026 14:44

AmnesiacsDream · 28/08/2026 13:37

A pregnant woman does have that right (at least for alcohol). It's not a good idea, though. Much like multi-generational 1st cousin marriage.

But making it criminal for any pregnant women to have any alcohol would be pretty authoritarian.

This is a false equivalence. There is a right to bodily autonomy. An embryo doesn’t have rights as it is not yet a legal person until it is born and cannot be considered as a viable individual with its own rights if it cannot exist separately outside its mother’s body with a realistic chance of survival.

This is completely different to a public policy matter regarding whom the state decides to grant rights to marry, which is entirely a matter for legislature because marriage is about state-conferred legal rights/ property etc via state recognition of a relationship. It is, therefore, for the state to make such choices, not individuals, and they should do so within our legal system based on not restricting personal freedoms more than is required to maintain a stable and functioning society and prevent unnecessary harm. In this case scientific evidence shows that marrying a cousin doesn’t meet this test so should not be permissible. Actively prohibiting an action in which the state has no involvement (what women choose to do with their own bodies) is completely different to the state actively endorsing something through state functions, such as conferring legal marital status. I.e. This is the state’s business and realm of decision-making, whereas what a woman chooses to do with her own body is not. There is, therefore, no possible rational argument as to why marriages between cousins should be permitted by the state per the principles of our law, given the scientific evidence.

The case of whether sex between cousins should be classified as incest is more complex because for the reasons above the state generally stays out of personal decisions on relationships however, this comes with the caveat that when something causes proven harm and the harm prevented by the limitation of it is proven to far outweigh any restriction on personal freedoms, the state will step in. It also has to be enforceable.

As a result, the crime of incest exists in law, because the harm this causes both genetically to descendants and to those who are in these (almost always coerced) “relationships” is so high that the curtailment of personal freedoms is necessary in these circumstances, and beneficial to society as a whole, and the sacrifice of personal freedom involved in prohibiting it is minimal given that pretty much nobody in their right mind with freedom to choose would want to do it anyway - it’s almost always abusive. Given the scientific evidence that the harm caused by procreating with cousins (especially over multiple generations) can easily be as significant as that from doing so with parents/ siblings/ aunts/ uncles, and the evidence of many of these “relationships” being coercive, the case for adding cousins to the list of relatives within the definition of incest is clear. There is no significant curtailment of freedom involved: anybody who wishes to can still have children, or marry whomever they like, they just need to pick a partner from the 3 billion adults on Earth of the opposite sex who aren’t a close relative.

Therefore, the balance of rights in this case is a no brainer. It is also easy to prove, easy to enforce robustly, and will actually reduce levels of personal freedom being curtailed overall because fewer people will be coerced into unwanted relationships and for many women it will mean it’s easier to leave abusive relationships, as well as preventing needless harm to children. A clearer “no-brainer” in terms of the balancing of rights and freedoms in determining law could hardly be imagined than the case for legislating against this, given what we now know about genetics.

This is fundamentally different to whether a woman might have a glass of wine during pregnancy. That is a case where education has worked. Far fewer women drink in pregnancy at all now, and those who do drink very small amounts generally, which have not been proved to cause harm in those quantities. In this case we also know that the few who do drink large amounts causing disabilities for children generally do so in an undetectable way (have you seen hammered pregnant women in public?) and there is nobody to report this if this is happening behind closed doors, so making it illegal would be ineffective because there’d be no way to enforce it on the very people who are causing the harm. Also it would be impossible to enforce because there’s no way to prove in many cases that a woman knew she was pregnant, and in some cases women have alcohol problems so making it illegal would actually cause MORE harm to children because it would encourage women not to seek help during pregnancy if they are suffering from alcoholism when this could prevent further harm to their unborn babies.

We know that the education campaign on this issue has worked for the vast, vast majority of pregnant women. There isn’t a resistance in certain population who are citing that drinking bottles of vodka while pregnant is their absolute right and tradition and that people are being prejudiced by telling them not to do so and claiming that the doctors are making up the evidence that it is bad and that the reason that babies of alcoholic mothers are both with disabilities is because the doctors poisoned them with medicine, is there? Yet these were the views expressed in the documentary that I posted the link to regarding the effects on the children of cousins in Bradford: the parents were in denial and some claimed the doctors were responsible for their children being disabled, and the medicine the doctors had provided was the cause!

Again, the outcomes and overall consequences of legislating need to be considered. In the case of sex with/ marriage to cousins, legislating against this actually strengthens women’s ability to seek help or leave what are often abusive and controlling situations: it’s much easiler to prove someone is your cousin than to prove they raped/ coerced/ abused you etc. Prosecutions would act as a deterrent from people engaging in the behaviour in the first place. The ability of women to leave and get help in refuges/ from police is raised. The practice will be reduced by criminalisation and rates will fall sharply and many children will be saved from being born into miserable and painful, short lives with debilitatating and untreatable conditions.

Neveragainplease · 28/08/2026 14:56

friedaklein · 26/08/2026 17:07

That was over a 150 years ago. If I am not wrong, one of their children had haemophilia.

This is true, however it seems to have been a spontaneous anomaly in Victoria herself, there was no haemophilia in the family before her, which would have been an issue whoever she married, he could have been a native American, she would have still passed it on. There is speculation that it was came via her father who was getting on a bit by the time she was conceived

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