AIBU to think my son can pursue further education without GCSE English or Maths?

[Italiangreyhound]

AIBU to think my son can pursue further education without GCSE English or Maths?

My son had some very difficult mental health issues in school, and also the end of his school career coincided with Covid. He is now 21.

He did go to college (with an EHCP) and got a Certificate in animal care and maintenance, and had one GCSE already, but not GCSE English or Maths.

Due to physical health issues, he has now been out of education and work for three years.

I am very keen for him to resume some education, prior to getting into paid work.

What could he consider, please? He is very bright, but dyslexic. Could Open University offer something suitable? His big passion is animals. I wondered about the environment, bio-diversity etc. Anyone got any experience of this type of subject at higher level for 'returning' students without GCSE English or Maths, please?

Could he just not do the level 3 Animal Management extended diploma? (Or if only has the L2 Certificate he could upgrade to the diploma) (Or does he have the level3 already? I'm unclear)

With his EHCP they could disapply the need for maths&english if they think he can't pass but otherwise able enough for the L3.

He is old enough to be able to do free courses in maths & english GCSE or Functional Skills.

I would suggest going back as a mature student to take his GCSE English and Maths, alongside a Diploma in his area of interest.

Student loans for Further Education are available. Look up your nearest colleges to see what is available. Use ChatGPT to help you.

@Italiangreyhound I didn't spot it was your user name .

I'd look at your local colleges plus the closest agricultural college.

Is it likely he can really get a job in these areas, is he capable and healthy enough? Or is it something fun to do to get him used to following a routine before finding a job?

I say the above because this is exactly where my ds is, doing something fun at an agricultural college without a hope in hell of ever working in that industry. He's gaining lots of valuable transferable skills and demonstrating he can commit, show up and complete and hopefully he will grow up a bit more whilst the general job market improves.

TeenToTwenties

Howdy..."I didn't spot it was your user name"

Yes, it's me. It's my older son I am asking about, not the adopted one.

"With his EHCP they could disapply the need for maths&english if they think he can't pass but otherwise able enough for the L3."

Sadly, once he stopped education his EHCP stopped.

NSEW

"I would suggest going back as a mature student to take his GCSE English and Maths, alongside a Diploma in his area of interest.
Student loans for Further Education are available. Look up your nearest colleges to see what is available. Use ChatGPT to help you."

That's a great suggestion, thank you.

SunCloudRain

"Is it likely he can really get a job in these areas, is he capable and healthy enough? Or is it something fun to do to get him used to following a routine before finding a job?

More of the latter. He is still very unwell. He loves animals and really wants to work in this area, but he has Chronic Fatigue (and two medical conditions), and animals need constant care at set times which is difficult for people with health issues. A fair bit of animal care is also grunt work, cleaning up etc, which he is happy to do but not healthy enough for. I have tried to encourage him in other areas but he loves animals. So it is partly just seeing what options he has.

"I say the above because this is exactly where my ds is, doing something fun at an agricultural college without a hope in hell of ever working in that industry. He's gaining lots of valuable transferable skills and demonstrating he can commit, show up and complete and hopefully he will grow up a bit more whilst the general job market improves."

We do live in a fairly rural area so an agricultural college may be possible.

I wish your son all the best.

Is he capable of getting maths and English GCSE?
I would probably look at getting them or functional skills first as that will open up more options to him.

Did the EHCP formally cease with the LA following the correct procedure for ceasing to maintain, or did it just stop as in the LA didn’t bother doing anything about it/provide anything?

I ask because some think the EHCP has stopped when it is the latter and whether DS has an EHCP or not will be important for knowing what is available.

If the former, I would request another EHCNA. Don’t be put off by anyone saying DS has been out of education for years. He has only been out of education because the LA failed him. The scope of education is wide and even if DS wasn’t in a position to attend college, he could still have received provision, including in relation to his chronic fatigue, via the EHCP. For example, it is quite easy to build a bespoke package around animals.

@ItaliangreyhoundEHCP’s can be re-opened up until the age of 25.

I’d rather not give details but I am supporting someone of a similar age to your son to do just that, having left education as a teen and is now in a position to re-engage.

I’d contact your LA SEN team and ask what the protocol is. As stands I’ve supported the young person to complete a pretty hefty “re-opening” application form.

What I have been told is having a very clear goal in terms of onward employment opportunities helps as the LA recognises the “win” of helping someone gain qualifications that have a good chance of leading to employment vs ongoing support if they remain dependent on benefits and/or adult social care.

Oliwiaa

"Is he capable of getting maths and English GCSE?
I would probably look at getting them or functional skills first as that will open up more options to him."

That is a very interesting question. I am not sure. He is very intelligent, but his English writing/spelling skills are not great. He is similar to me, dyslexic and I got a degree in English. So, I hope he could.

Unfortunately, if an EHCP has formally ceased, you would need to request another EHCMA just like you would to request an EHCNA for someone who had never had an EHCP before. In law, an EHCP that formally ceased cannot be ‘re-opened’ despite what some LA professionals try to mislead parents and YP to believe.

inthequietofdawn

"The scope of education is wide and even if DS wasn’t in a position to attend college, he could still have received provision, including in relation to his chronic fatigue, via the EHCP. For example, it is quite easy to build a bespoke package around animals."

That is a very interesting thought, something to ask about. Thank you.

FS English is far more straightforward than the GCSE. Dd2 did it with a tutor.

Don’t be put off even if the LA say it isn’t possible. LAs often lie.

"BreadInCaptivity · Today 13:56
**EHCP’s can be re-opened up until the age of 25."

Thank you, I did not know that they could be reopened!

"I’d contact your LA SEN team and ask what the protocol is. As stands I’ve supported the young person to complete a pretty hefty “re-opening” application form."

That sounds great, would my son need to pay for all courses now? Do you know.

"What I have been told is having a very clear goal in terms of onward employment opportunities helps as the LA recognises the “win” of helping someone gain qualifications that have a good chance of leading to employment vs ongoing support if they remain dependent on benefits and/or adult social care."

Great advice.

Re "I’d rather not give details" That's totally fine.

Feel free to PM me if there is anything else you wish to say but don't want to say on the open forum, but if not no worries at all.

Thank you 8inthequietofdawn I will look into this. *

All contributions here are being very helpful.

He really needs maths and English most employers look for it, he can do gcses or functional skills

If he has an EHCP the LA should cover funding

English & maths GCSE courses should be free at your local college.
Or you can do functional skills either in person, or if he's not ready for that yet you can do them online.

I think I would look at doing one of those as a start to ease back into education. Then there are lots more options open, level 3 courses, Access courses, Open University, apprenticeships.

PensionPTake

"If he has an EHCP the LA should cover funding"

That would be excellent. I will look into it.

He currently gets PIP.

Its a stumbling block for many kids
My son has got level 2 funtionsl skills English but still struggling with maths
Hes 19
Aside ftom this have you looked into the kings trust ? My son is just finishing a 12 week course with them
Hes come on on leaps and bounds in terms of maturity and mixing with others hes done all sorts with them including work experience and a residential
They have helped with his CV and mock interviews etc.

x2boys

" ... kings trust ? My son is just finishing a 12 week course with them
Hes come on on leaps and bounds in terms of maturity and mixing with others hes done all sorts with them including work experience and a residential
They have helped with his CV and mock interviews etc."

That sounds very good. I will look into that.

Is DS receiving UC as well? Or if he has capital over £16k, has he/his appointee made a credits only NS ESA application.

With an EHCP, provision can be funded. Without an EHCP, there will be funding for E&M. For other qualifications, DS may be eligible for funding via the Adult Skills Fund or a loan via the Advanced Learner Loan, but they both have eligibility criteria and will depend on the course, when DS starts it and if DS has a level 3 qualification or if it was a lower level BTEC.

EHCPs that have formally ceased (rather than just sat doing nothing because the LA is poor like too many are) can’t be ‘reopened’ legally. You would need to request another EHCNA. However, some LAs believe they can do as they wish and ignore the law.

I would suggest ge starts with maths and English, he will get funding for these at an FE college or adult education centre. Functional skills is more accessible than GCSE.

The OU are good but it can be a bit intense. Could he look at jobs adjacent to animal care, maybe something like receptionist in a vet's?

I used to foster cats for Cat's Protection, OK it isn't a job but gives you practical experience and they also do training. It doesn't have to be constant, some volunteers only covered when other fosteres were on holiday, so only for a week or two at a time.

Best of luck to the both of you.

inthequietofdawn

Is DS receiving UC as well?

No.

Re "With an EHCP, provision can be funded. Without an EHCP, there will be funding for E&M. For other qualifications, DS may be eligible for funding via the Adult Skills Fund or a loan via the Advanced Learner Loan, but they both have eligibility criteria and will depend on the course, when DS starts it and if DS has a level 3 qualification or if it was a lower level BTEC."

All very helpful

EHCPs that have formally ceased (rather than just sat doing nothing because the LA is poor like too many are) can’t be ‘reopened’ legally. You would need to request another EHCNA. However, some LAs believe they can do as they wish and ignore the law.

Re "EHCPs that have formally ceased (rather than just sat doing nothing because the LA is poor like too many are) can’t be ‘reopened’ legally. You would need to request another EHCNA. However, some LAs believe they can do as they wish and ignore the law."

Thank you, yes, we are looking into an EHCNA for our younger son at the moment.

It does appear to be a mine field!

sashh

"I would suggest ge starts with maths and English, he will get funding for these at an FE college or adult education centre. Functional skills is more accessible than GCSE"

Great ideas. Thank you.

Re "Could he look at jobs adjacent to animal care, maybe something like receptionist in a vet's?"

at the moment he could not really work, he asleep most of the day due to Chronic Fatigue.

"I used to foster cats for Cat's Protection, OK it isn't a job but gives you practical experience and they also do training. It doesn't have to be constant, some volunteers only covered when other fosteres were on holiday, so only for a week or two at a time.
Best of luck to the both of you."

Thank you so much. He has been pet sitting this summer to get additional experience.

DS, or his appointee if he has one, should apply for UC unless he has capital over £16k. If he has capital over £16k, make a credits only NS-ESA claim instead.

This is important beyond receiving money via UC. It is important to protect his pension (should a state pension exist by the time DS is SPA).