AIBU to feel my son is unfairly comparing support?

[Appleteeth]

Hi all, first of all I want to make it clear I’m not by any means saying I have been a good mother to my son, or that he doesn’t have every right to resent me for that, I don’t want this to read as woe is me.

Background
I have 2 children they are 41 and 26, I had my first child at 21, he was for the most part raised by my mother, I was completing my nursing degree then doing shift work, I provided for him financially, took him on holiday etc, but I will admit my mother did the vast majority of the day to day care. When he was 11 he wanted to try and live with me and my then partner, he moved in for 6 months but was having problems at school, we then trialled by partner moving out, nothing improved and he insisted he wanted to go back to his grans. So he did, my partner then moved back in.
3 years later my partner and I had our daughter, her father then left and never returned when she was 6 so I raised her alone.

Lately my son has increasingly been talking about the the injustice of his childhood, how DD did more hobbies than him, how the only reason DD now owns a home is because she had more support.

1. There was little in the way of financial disparity, actually I think my son got more money spent on him over all, he had a summer holiday every year, was taken abroad etc.
2. He always had the most fashionable clothes and toys, my mother and I worked extremely hard to ensure this

Yes DD did more hobbies, but my son never actually wanted to as a child, and as a result the last time DD left the country for a family holiday in childhood she was 4, we didn’t do a single holiday between 4 and 11, not even a uk break. DDs birthday and Christmas gifts were often made up of whatever she needed for hobbies that year.

She did go on to go to university being the first in our family to do so, got married and now has children.

She owns a home but I had no involvement in this at all, she and her partner (who had been together since they were 14 saved, and received help from his family, I didn’t have any money to offer).

Now I’m mortgage free but not very high earning as I left nursing for my own health 20 years ago.

I make no difference in the gifts I give to my son’s children and my daughters. I pay for us all to go on holiday once a year (just a uk break).

My son also borrows money every month which he doesn’t always pay back in full but I’ve accepted this.

This afternoon my son came over and he was complaining that his sons didn’t have their proper PE kit and went back to school last week, I told him I don’t have anymore money to give him, he has already had £400 this month and still owes me money from last month.

He then went on a rant that he knows I spent more on my daughter’s children’s school shoes than I did on his sons. This is true but I didn’t do it deliberately, I told them both I could afford £50 per child on school shoes, DD bought her children shoes from start rite so she spent it all, he sent me a link to some shoes which were only £30, I ordered exactly what he sent me.

This then spiralled into me apparently loving my DDs children more than his! This isn’t true at all. I see DDs children a little more as she is in the same town as me and a walk away, I babysit them one day a week for 2 hours and they come over for dinner once a week. I see my son’s children once a week as he brings them over and I try to stop in and see them when I can but it’s a bus away and I’m still working. He also asks me not to come to his ok the weekend so the only option is either the day I already have DDs children or after work. I have offered him babysitting countless times and he always says no he will get his partners mum to do it.

I don’t know what to do?

AIBU to feel I’m not currently doing anything wrong even if in the past I did mess up in having my mum raise him?

Im open to advice!

Contrary to what many are saying on here I think your son sounds highly unpleasant.

He's clearly angry and resentful about his childhood (possibly justified to some extent) and jealous of his sister.

i don't think your kow-towing to his demands at this stage will achieve anything other than a potential rift with your daughter how appears to be the innocent party in all this.

I'd have another heart to heart with him, ask if he wants to try family therapy - offer to pay for it if necessary...

Otherwise, I would just carry on as you are and let him have his tantrums, and stop giving him money - he's manipulating you.

I think people are forgetting that, 41 years ago, there wasn’t the help and support that single mothers get today. Her son would have been considered illegitimate , a term not really used nowadays, and the word ‘bastard’ was still common in those days. Many in her situation would have given their child up for adoption.

I think it’s a credit to her that she did what she thought best for her child, ie, live with her mum (ie gran) and provided financially, took him on holiday, attended school meetings etc. she wasn’t an absent parent, but was very much present. Plus she’s strived to finish her nursing degree.

It was the mid 80s fgs
most single mothers would not have given their child up for adoption. What on earth are you waffling on about here

Well going against the grain here but at 41 he should be financially responsible for his own children.

My mother was awful to me when I was a kid, and I still have feelings of resentment about how it impacted me but there comes a point where you cut contact or work on yourself.

Offer to pay for counselling so he can start to be happier in himself.

In the mid-eighties, there were very few single parents. His dad hasn't been seen for dust, presumably, and isn't on parenting forums trying to find out how to build a better relationship. Having a gran and a mum bring you up is not some abusive situation, he might feel resentful, but he's old enough now to see that was the choice of then and it is his life now. I hate how mums who have their kids and care for them (and the op has been caring these past 30 odd years!) are always blamed for not being better and the dads skip off without a care in the world.

Being a single mum is never ever easy, it wasn't then and it isn't now, and then there were no tax credits, or much childcare and the social stigma was much higher, people have forgotten very easily.

Oh don’t be daft
I am 45
my mum was a single parent
and I certainly wasn’t alone at my school
he was 11 when the Op moved in first with her boyfriend and then invited him. 1996

As much as your son may have had a difficult childhood relationship with you, giving him money each month and giving into his demands to not have your DDs children each Wednesday won't solve anything and may also damage your relationship with your DD and her children.

Your son needs therapy/ counselling and it may be good for you to go too, some joint sessions as he seems to be so full of anger and resentment.

I wouldn't be giving anyone on a 50k wage money, especially when he's being so awful. The fact you could visit at weekends but he's insisting it's Wednesdays to spite his sister would immediately make me refuse.

Many people have traumatic childhoods and, by all accounts here, he was raised by a loving grandmother in your stead.

Enabling him won't help him deal with his issues.
I'm sure the guilt is crippling but you can't be perpetually punished for something so long ago, especially when you have consistently tried to make amends.

my husbands sister is like your son. Nothing will ever be good enough for her in the family. There are a lot of siblings so it’s slightly different, but she will always struggle with her parents giving anyone else attention. It doesn’t matter if it’s equal, more or less, it’s deeper than that.

I personally wouldn’t give up your Wednesdays for your daughter as I imagine it wouldn’t fix things and would cause upset with your daughter.

I think family counselling is probably the only way forward as it sounds like he needs to understand how he feels like he does, as it’s clearly deeper than just needing you to visit on the one day he knows you have that commitment.

You see that is so sad. My DCs dad left when they were young primary school. He saw the kids but of course didnt organise birthday cards for me. My mum did occasionally, but couldn't always. So 1 year my DC raided my blank cards and wrote their own messages. They knew they wanted to and no adult had offered. That made me quite sad. But I am sorry that your DS has never recognised your birthday. Did your mum never prompt him?

OP, you are never going to win over your son. Nothing you do will ever be enough; he'll continue to find fault because he's steeped in resentment and self-pity. You've apologised, you've explained... Now he's a grown man and he needs to forgive you and sort out his own affairs and stop trying to undermine both you and your daughter.

Please don't change your arrangement with your daughter. This would only risk alienating her in order to appease your son. He's being an absurd dog in the manger about 'equal time' with all the grandchildren.

He probably needs therapy to deal with his resentment. He is manipulating your guilt and attempting to create a wedge between you and your daughter. You cannot change the past; but nor should that past dictate that you live the rest of your life appeasing and financially supporting your son.

Stop lending him money - there is no reason for him to be short of several hundreds every month. And why is your mother running interference between you and your children, tattling about the price of shoes? Tell her to stop exacerbating the situation. Stop telling her what you are doing.

Offer your son, as you have done, what is feasible for you. He can take it or leave it. I hope you are not being intimidated or threatened by him. If so, please seek help. You really need some support on your side. Look after yourself and encourage your son to see a counsellor about his unresolved issues, including his hatred of his sister. I'm afraid he has deep-seated problems which you cannot resolve through more money and more hours (and the concomitant for fewer hours for his sister). Good luck.

In the 80s there was no social media, or any kind of link up outside your own. Family/friends set up. These days there’s so much information and advice out there which can be accessed at the touch of a button. Back in the 80s you had to rely on a very small circle of people for your advice. It’s hard for the generation of people growing up after the 80s to imagine how that looked like. OP, you should stop bailing him out every month to the tune of hundreds of pounds. He is clearly manipulating you and trying to make you feel responsible for his financial difficulties. His childhood wasn’t ideal, but he needs to be an adult and sort his money problems out for himself, and not use you as his emotional punch bag.

Honestly, your son is a spoilt brat. He is old enough to realise that whilst you might not have made the right decisions about his upbringing, you did it for what you felt were the right reasons, albeit misguidedly. You have apologised repeatedly and you are present in his life now.

What he wants is for you to wreck your relationships with your DD and her family, to demonstrate that you are willing to put him first. All the reasonable efforts you are willing to make are not good enough for him because they don’t punish your daughter, and I am appalled by all the hand-wringing on here about the ‘poor little mite’ who just wants to be loved. He is a selfish, self-absorbed prick of a man who is badly behaved to both you and the grandmother who brought him up in a day to day basis.

By all means suggest the counselling but he won’t go, that’s not the outcome he wants- he is not trying to improve his relationship with you, he is trying to sabotage the one you have with your DD.

And stop giving him money.

He is sucking you financially. Don't give him money.

This is the issue. He isn't articulating it very well but ultimately you have been a single mother twice, once with him and once with your daughter. Your son was sent to live with his grandmother, but your daughter stayed with you. The fact that your circumstances were different each time and that you were a different person, is irrelevant to him. Being separated from you will have had an impact on him growing up, on his sense of self, his self-esteem, etc and he will still be living with the consequesnces of this. You don't mention his father but assume he was absent too. Your daughter would be impacted by her absent father too but at least she had you and some semblance of stability. Having said that, it feels like you are trying to compensate for it with money and material things. In doing so, you are infantilising both (DS in particular). Have you considered family counselling?

And I worry about his partner. 2 children. Yes she is meant to earn well, but so is he. I wonder what other fi ancial abuse is happening in that household. OP hasn't mentioned her son's partner in any personal capacity at all.

Stop giving your son money. He's a grown man he shouldn't be taking money off you or his grand mother. Tell him you want to spend more time with him to make up for your past neglect. Why is he borrowing money does he have some kind of habit? He is understandably jealous of his sister and the way he's been treated and needs time but the money issue is madness. A 40 year old borrowing £300 a month off his mother is ridiculous and needs to stop.

Okay.

The large amount of responders who are giving you their lovely judgements are judging you by modern standards when you were not living by modern standards. I think you are now judging yourself by modern standards too because of the words coming out of your middle-aged son's mouth on repeat and, if I had to guess, your mother's too at times.

Back then, this scenario was not particularly rare. I've several instances within my own family where granny helped raise the kids with them living with her but seeing their mum often still.

Only one turned out like your son. My cousin's eldest boy whose dad buggered off before he was even born so her mum, my aunt, took him in while my cousin worked. Their story was near identical to your own but produced two later siblings by a new husband who also buggered off and she wasn't a nurse but just did any job she could get to pay for the upbringing of all three. Very talented clever woman, just really shit at picking men. My second cousin, let's call him Dick because it fits, was used to being nanny and grandads little golden boy, no matter how much his mother gave him, no matter how many times she tried to get him to live with his siblings, he still went back to granny's house after more money and little pats on the head. That's where he was most spoilt as the only child in the house. In trouble at school. Out on the streets at all hours. Violent. Even getting into criminality when he could get money out of it. Wouldn't work. Stealing from family. Thick as pigshit. Entitled as fuck. Dick hated his sister and little brother, claiming he was hard done by in every way, even though he received more than they ever did. Both financially and emotionally. He disappeared in the end...no more money left to beg after.

Your son reminded me instantly of Dick. My second cousin was half your sons age though so was still immature when he was being an arse. Being young is absolutely not an excuse your son can use at 41 with children of his own.

I'm sorry but your son sounds as if he was and still is an ungrateful unpleasant potentially violent spoiled brat. One with a great line in blaming the nearest female for everything he finds wrong in his world. He even claims his partner is the one responsible for spending all his money FFS. That's a load of rubbish if I've ever heard it. I wonder if she knows he's saying that about her because I bet she doesn't.

I've read all you've said and feel he wants revenge above everything else. Money is just one way to achieve that. He is VERY clearly attempting to cause a complete disconnect between you and DD and her children. Once he achieves it, he will drop you like a hot potato, hoping you die with nobody. At that point, you will not even see him nor his kids unless he wants money and he only wants that because he knows you don't have it to spare so it's a good way to hurt you. And that IS what he is trying to do, hurt you.

You did what you could,, what you had to do in order to manage. It's time to stop trying to get forgiveness and understanding because he NEVER intends to give you either.

He needs therapy and a kick up the arse. He's already grown up enough. He's 41 FFS, not 17.

He is not a nice person. Some of that may be your doing, some his granny's but plenty is of his own doing. He will never think he's anything but the victim of all the women around him though. He even seems to blame your daughter the most. What did she ever do to him other than being born and working hard to acheive her own goals.

Stop giving him money. Stop trying to make it up to him. He won't let you.

This is incorrect. 41 years ago, attitudes were not much different to now. It was 1985, not 1955. Single parents were given council flats and benefits were relatively generous. She also would ave received a grant while studying, there were no tuition fees, students received housing benefit although not sure where OP was as nursing wasn't a degree subject in the 1980s.

Exactly!!

that posyer actually said most would have given their child up for adoption.

1985!!!

and it was 1996 when she moved in with boyfriend and then thought it would be ideal time to invite her son. FGS you’d think you’d want to live alone with your child

He experienced emotional neglect as a child and that wound runs deep and taints his perception of how you treat him and his sibling now

This.

Trauma is complex and sometimes ugly. In adults it can manifest as all kinds of things. Nodding along with the posters calling him names and suggesting that he's a grabby waste of space or whatever might help you feel a bit better about things, but doesn't seem to be particularly enlightening or helpful.

I suspect that he's trying to push you to see if there is that mythical thing - unconditional acceptance and love from you - that he didn't get as a child.

My trauma from that period in my life has resulted in the opposite really - a cool, polite, distant relationship with my parent. I don't want anything from her. I wouldn't even ask her to water our plants when we go on holiday, let alone money.

That isn't great. Nor is your son's behaviour. But there is a traumatised kid in everything you're seeing now, as unappealing as this behaviour presents in an adult. Family therapy might help. I hope it does.

Gambling problem, drinking problem or drugs problem??

Taking cash each month from you and his gran, at 41?

Something's off somewhere.

And many of us on here have had shitty childhoods and shitty parents. We don't bleed them dry or act like entitled arseholes.

Then it was a fairly poor example to use without that context.

I never said I did a degree? I said training!
I specifically said DD was the first in our family to go to university.

It was in 1983: Southampton University

I knew two sisters who became nurses in the eighties. One took the degree route, and the other the traditional route.