DD overdose. The system is broken? Any advice?

[BeethovenNinth]

I have posted about DD before. Broken by lockdown, anorexia age 12, school drop out, burn out, self harm extreme. We are five years in.

we have repeatedly been told she doesn’t qualify for help and have tried various therapists ourselves.

she is out of school and self learning. Very lonely. Seems ok recently ot so I thought.

due to intense sadness last night she took an overdose of aspirin. I suspect a cry for help and she phoned childline who got her to phone 111. (She didn’t think to wake any of us). I suspect A and E will just kick us out soon.

we are a loving family but this is a huge setback.

we are Edinburgh based, desperate desperate for the right help.

private psychiatrist? Do we suggest sertraline? Anyone in Scotland have any good suggestions?

thanks from a broken mother

Sending love OP ❤️

autism can show up late - especially in girls. I’m not saying it is ASD but it’s common for girls to be mis diagnosed.

but getting a diagnosis won’t solve much tbh at this point. Your best bet is to try meds. Get her stable and then think about other stuff like diagnoses after once she is safe.

cam it be possible to have ASD and zero signs through childhood though until post lockdown? I mean zero. Zero concerns from any teachers. Sociable and happy, nice group of friends. The kid that went to holiday clubs and brownie camp. Early talker and smiler. I’m so confused as I felt there would at least be the odd trait.

then Covid and wham.

she says it was the same as before the self harm. A complete build up and she didn’t want to cut herself.

i so hope meds does raise her a bit. Nothing really has so far other than being out of school. (She has PTSd from that due to violence from other kids - post lockdown).

I am removing all meds. But we have kitchen knives and there is glass. Realistically I will have a breakdown if I can’t leave her bedroom.

Yes it is possible @BeethovenNinth

I never suspected it of my daughter. Then she developed Tourette’s with the very profuse unstoppable swearing, carved fuck on her wall then started cutting her arms and running away at 2am in the hopes that it would be very cold and she could just lie down and die. Covid fucked up so very many of our children.

When DH was diagnosed the psychologist said it is common to not suspect it in childhood. Something to do with being well looked after by your parents and it’s only as you get older that you start to fall apart. Sorry I can’t remember exactly what she said.
lots of people with asd are sociable though. Also as ASD runs in families parents often don’t notice traits as they have the same traits.
I really hope she gets the support she needs

OP I am well ahead of you but my child who overdosed and self harmed and ran away and assaulted people and sold
drugs and caused general chaos when not lying in bed school refusing is now the most remarkable young adult. Competent, loving and connected and just better - healthy and with a set of mature grounded values that bring joy to them and us. I wish for you the same. It is possible.

@BeethovenNinth “can it be possible to have ASD and zero signs through childhood though until post lockdown? I mean zero. Zero concerns from any teachers. Sociable and happy, nice group of friends. The kid that went to holiday clubs and brownie camp. Early talker and smiler. I’m so confused as I felt there would at least be the odd trait”

Im obviously no expert/professional but I think No. Autism doesn’t develop/appear. It’s either there from day one or it isn’t. It can of course be overlooked/ not noticed but I think from what you’ve described I wouldn’t suggest autism is a factor although your poor dd is clearly struggling. Covid deffo seems to be a factor in that as with many youngsters.
I suggest maybe having a look online for a “quiz” that aims to figure out what label might be best suited to a person.

chesatony your story gives me such hope xxxx (although it’s so tough reading how prevalent this issue is)

i read about how babies can suddenly develop autism - is that not now the MMR discussion came about? Can that happen age 12? I now see it as some terrifying monster that is not there and arrived overnight in our case and stole my daughter. I search and search for signs and there were none - confident and happy and well adjusted until after lockdown when high school started after Covid (and she had suffered Covid.)

weirdly my friends whose kids were diagnosed autistic before covid are all doing really well. I feel this is something else- I can’t put my finger on it and the various professionals who have seen her have shrugged my queries away.

I also worry about my other daughters. Can this happen again? They are fine and then the next something that hasn’t been there suddenly appears? Ironically my middle child was more anxious in earlier years and less confident and is now thriving as a teen.

Hi Op.

have you reached out to your local children’s services? They’re may be some other support that she can receive if you have a family support worker. Don’t be worried about reaching out to them they are there to help. I don’t know what the Scottish equivalent is but here we have youth engagement workers that work solely with the young person but the referral has to come from children’s services.

Thanks millmoo without sounding like a victim, we haven’t got one. We haven’t had anything other than various charities I have tried. She hasn’t got any support - we seem to fall through all cracks. I have asked for social work support (as this has made my DH v unwell) a few years ago - and I was told it was inappropriate. School asked her to leave in June as they said they couldn’t do anything for her and was “well supported” at home. GP asked me to leave the room during a relapse as she was “medically well”. We now have a new GP who I like very much and will see but won’t prescribe and refers us to CAHMs who tell me her life isn’t at risk and gives me a sheet of paper about self harm or eating or whatever.

we have been discharged to CAHMs again - to name and shame them it’s East Lothian CAHMS which is a special kind of negligently crap and tell me nothing is available. They diagnosed her anorexia and then stick her in various queues and by the time we see someone (well meaning; useless) they sign her off. It’s beyond cruel. The way I got her over anorexia first time was by saying she wouldn’t need to see them again if she ate such was the trauma they gave her.

There is probably a daily mail article in here but I preserve her anonymity

Is children’s services social work? When DD first dropped out of school - we are Scotland - for a year - a year - we heard nothing and I stopped telling school she wasn’t going in to prompt action. It took a year and the deputy head phoned after that and after another year she did get some one on one to try catch up at the local Library as she is capable. She got back for three months part time but with no support socially and a private counsellor who I forced her to see and ultimately the self harm returned to badly I pulled her out. With CAHMs saying no help despite being in A and E three times for her self harm which was severe. We did try Self Harm Scotland who offer counselling and she was lovely and it helped a little

i have given up mentally at this time in the morning and feel Covid and lockdowns has destroyed her and no one cares. My friends no longer ask how she is as they can’t understand or seem embarrassed and we go round in circles.

i have said to DH we remortgage the house and throw everything privately in an attempt to try save her

I am really sorry this is happening to you and your daughter. My eldest has attempted suicide a number of times and also self harmed and CAMHS were completely unhelpful. She did go on sertraline in the end and did a lot better, just passed her Uni degree with a first so there is hope I promise. Im not sure how any of us got through those years, I swung between fear of her doing something to herself and also fear that I would kick her head off her fucking shoulders cos she made me so ANGRY.

The only thing she ever found helpful was Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT), I dont know if CAMHS where you are do this? I am training in it myself (I work for CAMHS how ironic) and it is amazing. All about walking the middle path, being able to deal with a crisis when it happens without harming yourself, and resolving conflict in a positive way. If there was a DBT group where you are I would push push push for that.

I dont suppose you have health insurance? Places like AXA and BUPA can refer to other services where you can get a psychiatry assessment, meds and also psychotherapy. It is quick too.

I am an Internet stranger sending you and your daughter a lot of love.

I don’t think GPs can prescribe antidepressants for under 25s due to the increased suicide risk

They can for over 18s but frankly with someone who has the history of the op’s daughter as a parent I’d want a psychiatrist assessing, looking at all options and prescribing. As getting taken on by adult MH is extremely unlikely and reactionary lead( shockingly one overdose isn’t enough) you’re looking at private. However private is £500 just for an initial appointment and you’ll be charged for med reviews which are frequent to start. Then you need to look at assessment for therapy by a different consultant which is £££ too for assessment alone. They don’t necessarily work together like they do in the NHS or necessarily be safe and good.

And we wonder why MH and NEET figures are so high in young prople( a lot of whom have been ignored by CAMHS too). Only the rich and very informed can get help for their struggling people. Huge pressures are being put on families trying to work and pay mortgages.It’s a national disgrace and should be highlighted more.

Can you ask for her to be sectioned? Say you can’t keep her safe at home? Seems outrageous that a child with a suicide attempt doesn’t meet the threshold for CAMHS.

Sorry if I'm suggesting the obvious and I know it's not something that offers any immediate help, but I wondered if your daughter receives any benefits that could help towards the costs of therapy: Child Disability Payment / Adult Disability Payment. We're in England so for my daughter it's PIP. It has helped to fund so many various therapies over the years. I also receive carers allowance, obviously I don't know if that's applicable for you. Other than that I just wish you well, try to take care of yourself also whilst navigating this shit storm of a time.

Why is she going to sectioned when she made phone calls for help? Parents can’t demand sectioning, that’s not how it works. Beds are hugely expensive and in short supply and even those with very serious mental health conditions mostly don’t get sectioned, admitted or even offered help under mental health services.They haven’t tried community help first so you then get offered the crisis team which is very temporary and still often doesn’t lead onto mental health services. The reality is they give you meds and ring to see if you’re safe for a few days. It doesn’t treat anything. Some young people ping pong from crisis to crisis.

Sadly and unbelievably an overdose is seen as nothing nowadays. It gets you very little.They don’t care about parents at all over 18 or a young person’s age.

I’d see what crisis say op, hopefully they might prescribe something which will help avoid private psych bills for that. Then you can focus on getting some therapy but research carefully.

PIP is actually hard to get. You have to prove support needs which when you’re not getting any isn’t easy.

Sorry I’m being so negative but I am responding to the op title and people not living with this need to be aware of the realities that families are battling with as the system is indeed broken .

Agreed. One of the criteria for diagnosis is that the traits have been there since the child was very young, they dont suddenly just appear at a certain age.

thanks For the stranger love as it really really helps. Really helps. One day I shall pay it back.

yes it’s impossible to describe the system. Even after her major self harm admission they wouldn’t even countenance a section and in any event that would cause her major trauma.

we can pay to an extent for therapy and we are lucky - but accessing and navigating it all is the hard bit not least as I have resisted medication.

Dont be ridiculous, she isnt sectionable at all, you dont just phone up a 'get someone sectioned'. People with suidical ideation, thoughts, actions even with overdose are not necessarily sectioned. Diagnostic overshadowing unfortunately, where they're only seeing this girl through one lens at a time. In this case its about the eating.
She is depressed/anxious and needs medication for that. Only way to get it is privately

Pay to go private. Times a million. Just get it done. Phone them on Monday morning and book an appointment. There is no other way.

As we pretty much ALL know by now, there is no other help coming.

To be fair - and I say this laughing in an unhinged way - if you had told me that a kid could drop out of school and all major systems for a year with no check on her welfare I would have said the same. That an anorexic is ordered out and shut out from support. That you can take an overdose age 16 and told to go home. That you can be patched for major bleeding and sent away told your life isn’t at risk. As I said to achool - “how did you know my daughter was even alive?”. They didn’t. She could have been dead for a year age 12 and no one would have known.

I had utterly no idea any of this could happen and nothing would be put in place.

I remember worrying social services would be called when my daughter was knocked by our dog as a toddler and I had her checked out. If only I had known.

and what happens to the kids who don’t have a me? Or where the mum cracks? Where do they go?

Until you hit the Scottish education and health system in 2021 you have absolutely no idea at all.

Oh yeah it’s insane. My daughter missed an entire academic year and nobody was bothered in any way.

God knows what happens to the kids who have nobody to watch over them. To be fair, it contributed to the end of my marriage but she’s alive and heading off to college, which is more than I hoped for.

Just a thought @BeethovenNinth the therapostndd really gelled with was through Relate. Until that point she'd had the fullb gamut from NHS to £150 sessions privately. They have grown in this space and it is means tested. We have means and the highestnrate was, I recall £35/£40 in 2016/17.

Consultant adolescent psychiatrist must be your first step now. Possibly also some therapy for you, to keep you well. Paradoxically, far easier to access than for your young person.

It's a gruelling time.

Yep it’s nuts. And for every one of these statistics there is a broken mother and father, siblings and jobs being clung onto by the skin of one’s teeth.

Are crisis going to see her op as I do think it’s worth seeing if they’ll get her seen by a psych first? Please be careful re private.