Channel 4 ADHD documentary

[crackerjackbaby]

Totally totally one sided. And very dangerous as a result of that. AIBU to think this?

It’s not that being poor makes people have ADHD it’s that having a disability like ADHD gives you a disadvantage in life and you are more likely to end up poor and if you have a hereditary condition and are poor you will then be bringing up children who also have ADHD in poor conditions.

And they didn’t used to cope they were in institutions.

I have ADHD diagnosed and oppositional defiance and my parents managed it through fear, I was beaten black and blue when I displayed a symptom so of course I masked.
My daughter who has it is unmanageable because of her defiant behaviour and my (80+) parents still say she’d have got a good hiding in my day if she carried on like that but you’re not allowed to discipline kids these days and they do what they want. I.e don’t mask.
I don’t agree with how she managed me, but it worked in her eyes because the behaviour was masked and she didn’t see it. Times are what have changed.

@Batfearthat cost is impossible to calculate due to the overlap with trauma. Trauma definitely costs that and much, much more. Where is trauma’s sexy rebrand? Is it because trauma, and ACEs, are much more linked to the lower classes and ADHD is now a middle class thing? So less people care?
When I work with people who find every day challenging, who have extreme struggles to stay alive, what links them is nearly always trauma, not ADHD. Autism sometimes.
This ADHD thing is much more concerning for who I consider ‘the worried well’. I’m glad people in prison and perpetrators of domestic abuse are now being fast tracked for ADHD and other assessments. But like I said, I think if we could prioritise children who are in very less than ideal home environments over children who are likely going to turn out ok but don’t want to practice piano every night, we would massively improve things for everyone in society.

This part was completely ridiculous for multiple reasons. Firstly, you don't just take one pill and expect immediate improvement. You go through a titration process that takes months to find the right medication and the right dose. Of course there are side effects, like with most medication.

Also, if you don't have ADHD, this medication will not have the same effect on you as someone that does. Yes, I'm one of those awful people that is prescribed amphetamines. I can take mine and then have a peaceful sleep afterwards because it improves my brain function such that is closer to a neurotypical person. I do not get high from it.

This man is an idiot.

Which is a threat to neurotypical people so they don’t agreed we should be supported and medicated, all the time we are at a disadvantage we are less competition.

I've seen some really far out conspiracy theories that make more sense than this one.

Of course.

I totally agree. It was hugely unprofessional and manipulative. I’ve taken the medication as have my children. We were told by NHS psychiatrists you won’t see much change to start with and we didn’t. None of us did. It has been life changing for my children. I don’t take medication. There are different types and even brands you can try ( my dc tried a couple of brands)so to infer everybody feels like he says he allegedly felt after one pill of ADHD medication is massively disingenuous at best particularly coming from a psychiatrist.Is this what we expect from an NHS psychiatrist?

Max Pemberton has faced severe professional backlash and public scrutiny following the broadcast and his conduct, ethics, and professional positioning are under intense examination from several angles.ADHD uk have formed a formal complaint with OFCOM labelling the program "sensationalist nonsense" and arguing that calling a recognised medical condition a "myth" causes immense harm. Adam Dance MP led a cross-party letter from the All- Party Parliamentary Group on ADHD warning that the program severely worsens stigma. The Royal College of Psychiatrists also formally issued warnings against invalidating the condition. Viewers and neurodivergent advocacy community members have openly stated they are submitting "fitness to practice" complaints to the GMC regarding his clinical ethics during the production. The RCGP has distanced itself from the retired GP quoted.

Max Pemberton is under fire because of the stunt diagnosis in the film, Pemberton payed
£1,200 for a private assessment, intentionally answers the diagnostic criteria to receive a "combined" ADHD diagnosis, and takes the stimulant medication—only to state he "does not accept" his own diagnosis. Critics and fellow medical professionals have labeled this a highly unethical manipulation of diagnostic boundaries to feed a pre-determined narrative.

He is also under fire because of the child experiment. The program featured a 10-year-old boy who was taken off his ADHD medication for six weeks. A footnote at the very end of the show revealed the boy's mother had to immediately put him back on his medication due to a steep decline in his schoolwork, leading many to accuse the production of exploiting a child for "clickbait" television.

And finally there is the pre- existing bias. While the documentary was framed as an "investigation" into the rise of ADHD, it has been pointed out that Pemberton had already firmly made up his mind, having previously written articles in right wing media such as The Spectator claiming ADHD is "wildly over-diagnosed" and blaming "bad parenting." He also did not include any of the facts re diagnose rates and ignored the research and stance re ADHD as regards the NHS.

Following all this how on earth can he stay working in the NHS? Doctors must not let personal, religious, or political views alter the fair treatment of a patient or push personal beliefs onto them.Its terrifying that somebody like this is allegedly practicing in the NHS.

@Cantloseyou- as I mentioned upthread, the presenter and an MRI brain imaging specialist presented as some kind of “Gotcha” that there is no difference between brain scans of those with ADHDA and those without.

But brain scan imagining is actually a (relatively) recent technology and there are loads of workings of the brain outside the “normal” it won’t detect. The function and movement of dopamine, for example.

he causes of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) have not been established yet, but researchers have looked at a neurotransmitter (brain messenger) called dopamine as a possible contributor.

Children and adults with ADHD typically have more difficulty focusing than people who do not have ADHD. They may also act more impulsively than their peers. This may make it difficult for them to perform in school or work as well as function in other areas of life.

Dopamine in ADHD

Dopamine is involved in several key functions, including mood, working memory, attention, and decision making. It helps you regulate emotional responses and take action to achieve specific outcomes. Dopamine is also involved in feelings of pleasure and reward.

A malfunction of dopamine signaling, paired with other factors, may affect these functions, resulting in symptoms like impulsivity, inattention, and difficulty making decisions, among others.

I just chortled at how the various non experts in the programme, dredged up from various medical branches completely unconnected with The diagnosis, treatment and research into neurodivergence, were like “oh, this is just on a spectrum of normal and some people have more traits of fidgeting than others”.

There was absolutely no mention of the fact another aspect of the issue is that the behaviours have to impair function. That poor mum took Mason off medication - until he got a terrible set of exam results and then he started taking it again.

As a parent, I’m hardly likely to say “Oh, the drugs are blunting my son’s ‘funness’: I won’t let him take them, even though he’s failing abysmally academically”.

The whole thing was ignorant, sensationalist, half-baked, unempathetic tripe, designed to play into the hands of the many, many people who think it’s all made up.

Live with the effects for a week and tell me it’s not a thing.

Jesus.

@ruledoutin many cases, they didn’t cope. They failed academically and often wound up in the criminal justice system or with mental health issues.

Anyway - is that what we want to go back to? Just “coping”?

Yeah, it's easy to say "coping" when you don't live it. I would love to have avoided the mental health issues, exam failing, bullying and burnout.

The neuroscientist Katya Rubia interviewed has been quoted in the New Scientist:-

“My interview was hours long and they cherry-picked the bits that suited their push for presenting ADHD as a myth,” Rubia told New Scientist. “Biased programs like this one that push their view of ADHD as a mythical entity are irresponsible and will have detrimental effects.”

Thats just appalling.

Article in full. You have to register but it’s free.

www.newscientist.com/article/2585608-calling-adhd-a-myth-is-pseudoscientific-and-dangerous/

Tldr I believe Adhd is real and can be distressing. However before medicating explore other options before going down that route but make sure a consistent routine has been given a fair trial. If its not worked meditation could help a lot.

I work with families whose children need support through children's services.
We work one to one with the children and they stay over for respite one or two nights a week.
The number of children who have a diagnosis of ADHD is unreal, there was about three cases when I started my job 12 years ago. Now out of 68 children on our books 62 have adhd many diagnosed by their parent but we have to record what they tell us.

I don't dispute ADHD as a condition and children should be given support in what everway works best for them. What I am seeing is parents pushing for an assessment more and more when I attend CIN meetings. On more occasions than I can count the teacher has said things like ' what are you on about? The behaviour you are talking about is normal child behaviour '

Some of the children I am thinking about are addicted to the xbox and their phone and are constantly watching YouTube videos. You cannot talk to them and they are in a trance. There are homes have huge screens which is on constantly and I have to ask to turn he volume down when I do home visits as I feel over stimulated with flashing images and loud noise especially if the children are using it for video games. I cant think straight and have a conversation with the parents.It must be stressful living in a state of noise and flashing images.
Along side this the children have never had a boundary set in their lives. The number of times ive been called a cunt because I have said 'no' to a child is unreal!

The parents complain about their children being 'hyper'
Our setting is completely different to what the children are used to. We have a small TV in the lounge rather than a huge screen. We eat together as a group, we go out in small groups. In good weather we go to the beach, the woods, bike through the forest, walk on the moors do park runs ( well i dont, other staff do) go on dog walks,go swimming etc. On wet days we bake, make things, do photography, play games and so on. Most of these the average parent can do.

We usually dont have the behaviours that parents describe at home.
This is not a blame game. We encourage parents to be more creative with their children. Those that take our advice and support have reported back much calmer children and enjoy spending time with them. Behaviour doesn't change overnight and families have to be consistent with their chosen method.
Of course not every child is going to respond well. Personally i think looking at the home life and trying different strategies should be the first port of call before Meditation.

Meditation may be the correct option for some children though to help ' turn off or down' the noise in their head and help their mental wellbeing. If this helps then truly it must be a good thing.
Clearly im not an expert. Im just posting my observations after many years of working with families.

As a senior manager in children’s services, surely you should be asking for evidence of a diagnosis not just repeating what parents tell you.

@Whistonia Children's Services is the extreme end of service with quite a high bar. I’d expect there to be high numbers of ADHD within this setting as it has a catastrophic impact on life that will lead you there and as it is so under diagnosed families are left desperate and coping with next to nothing. Some of these kids will be living in flats and given screens to mage the adhd nobody else is helping with.

Why aren’t you liaising with school
during the diagnosis process?

As a senior manager in children’s services, surely you should be asking for evidence of a diagnosis not just repeating what parents tell you.
We get our information from the social worker. Believe me my managers do ask for evidence.
Im not a senior manager.

Why aren’t you liaising with school
during the diagnosis process?
The childten that do have a diagnosis have already hot it before they come to our service. They are referred to us by their social worker. We work with the family for about a months.

So presuming as they’re under a high level of services and there is a big cost with private they will have had a robust NHS diagnosis that will have got info from alternative settings.

Nice to see professionals working with vulnerable children and families aren’t in the least bit judgemental or prone to stigmatising views re ND. 🤔

Nice to see professionals working with vulnerable children and families aren’t in the least bit judgemental or prone to stigmatising views re ND. 🤔
Not all the families are receiving a high level of care. They may just have a short intervention for a couple of months. We are not meant to be a ND service but my point was along the way we have way more children with or wanting adhd diagnosis.

My point was as it can take a long time to get a diagnosis , is it not worth trying adifferent tactic. I clearly said medication could be the right thing for some children, no judgement from me.

No I am. The SW’s should get the evidence definitely! It’s dangerous not too.

But he impact of the situations they live in also has a significant impact on their development. That’s why a social assessment is needed too

No I am. The SW’s should get the evidence definitely! It’s dangerous not too.
Sorry I misunderstood you!.

We have some fabulous social workers who work themselves into the ground (which is not right) but we also have a very high turn over of SWs who move on quickly to different team different authorities or turn to agency work. Sometimes it is difficult get a response from them. In the last few months it is frustrating to have CIN cancelled the morning they are due without explanation , a change of sw for my families with no notice or hand over ,no response to emails for weeks etc.
All we as ground workers want is good outcomes for young prople and their families.

Little sympathy with her, TBH; unless they lied to her about the premise of the documentary. It was her responsibility to ensure she wouldn’t be misrepresented before appearing on screen - preferably by giving her consent for her to appear in it only after they sent her the edit they planned to screen so she could check it.

She’s a highly qualified professional: allowing her views to be misrepresented in this way shows spectacularly poor judgment.

I think the professionals on this thread are being very realistic and honest in describing the issues and dilemma’s they are having to deal with.

Or a huge amount of manipulation. Easiest thing in the world to give false picture of focus and then cherry pick bits from hours of interview to push an agenda and not let the person interviewed see the end result until airing.