AIBU to see my MIL's reaction as manipulative and cruel?

[GreenAcreFarm22]

My MIL and step-FIL visited us about a month ago while DH was away (I posted about this already, but in a different context). It was awful, I felt like I was being punished the whole stay with a lot of passive-aggressive jibes. Notably, during that time, MIL took me aside and told me off for being "jealous" of my husband's attention towards the baby, apparently assuming this was why I'd been upset with him around my birthday. The following day, she then explicitly asked me about our sex life. She then said that if she'd been "all shredded down there," she wouldn't want to have sex either and that I would lose my husband's interest if I didn't. She knew I'd had very severe tearing during birth. I found this incredibly insensitive and insulting, particularly given how vulnerable I've been this year.

I told DH about it when he got back, but he spent the following weeks avoiding confronting his mum.

Yesterday, he finally decided to speak to her by phone to set the record straight, which I was not expecting.

He actually went into the conversation trying to take some responsibility himself, saying that perhaps he'd miscommunicated something about an argument we had just before they arrived and that I was not a jealous person. Instead of asking what had happened or trying to understand why I was upset, MIL got very heightened, categorically denied saying any of it, and immediately turned the conversation around to how hurt she was by me.

She said she's miserable and depressed, that we don't care about her, that she only ever tries to be my friend and I make her feel unwelcome. Step-FIL then joined in, saying they'd both apparently been "extra nice" to me during their visit because of the argument. MIL eventually agreed that she would speak to me to make amends.

Shortly afterwards, she sent DH a very long text message saying she was hurt beyond belief, was not going to apologize for something that didn't happen, that all I wanted was to drive a rift in the family, that she is generous and kind, and that everything I'd said had never happened and was all made up.

Step-FIL then messaged DH saying he needed to call him first thing this morning.

DH spoke to him this morning, and he continued to deny everything for both of them, saying there may have been a "misunderstanding" and that MIL was simply very hurt. However, it seemed maybe there was some conceding on his half about crossed wires, which was positive, but unsure why he had to step in.

However, shortly after that call, MIL sent DH a complete tirade of messages, listing everything I've apparently ever done wrong since 2016, calling me a liar and saying that all he has done is hurt her because he has listened to my lies. She also said she "doesn't want to live anymore" because of all this and shes never going to see her grandson again.

What I find really odd, is that all the things I find difficult about her - like I can't seem to have a proper conversation with her, she sends a message, I respond, but she never responds back. Doesn't respond to baby photos. Makes me feel super unwelcome by pretending I'm not in room, etc. She has turned back on me again, saying I do these things to her.

At no point has she acknowledged what she said to me, apologised, or even shown any curiosity or concern about why I was upset.

DH is absolutely devastated. He feels like he's lost his safe space with his mum because he genuinely believed he could speak to her honestly and have a reasonable conversation.

What's particularly upsetting is that DH wasn't even attacking her. He was trying to address something that had happened a month ago and explain why it had upset me, especially with my PPD. Somehow the entire conversation has become about how badly she has been treated, with everything being denied and turned back onto me. It's literally all become about her.

This seems like such a crazy escalation. I'm struggling to know how to interpret this reaction, but it seems very manipulative and cruel towards my husband.

I remember your post personally I would just leave it now. Block her on your phone and tell dh you are not interested in anything she has to say to him

concentrate on your own little family and leave the in laws to dh

Obviously we're only getting your side of things here, and I have a feeling there's more to it, but taking it at face value, they sound unhinged.

I would block them both and refuse to speak to them ever again. DH can facilitate contact with your children if he wishes to do that.

If you ever do come in to contact with her, record the conversation on your phone.

DH obviously feels like he has/d a decent relationship with his mum, so leave him to it. She will still see the gdc, but without you, which sounds like a blessing for you. She sounds very tricky, but honestly your DH bringing up this on the phone after a month to set the record straight, was never going to go well.

She sounds insane. If she liked you so much why does she have a list of everything you’ve done wrong since 2016? Your DH should have immediately stood up for you and been mortified by his mother’s behaviour at the time. He still hasn’t really stood up for you and any parent telling a child they don’t want to live is a manipulative, nasty arse hole.

I wish there were at this point

She's a narcissist. For your own sanity - go no contact with her. It will free you!!

If your DH chooses to keep her in his life - that's up to him, but I'd make it clear that you want nothing to do with her and you don't want to hear about any drama or playing victim anymore.

I think at this stage all you can do personally, is withdraw from any immediate contact with her and her husband until she is prepared to be reasonable to you. She is clearly revelling in all the drama and my advice would be to refuse to feed this any further. No contradicting her, no response to her threats of wanting to die or never seeing you DC at all. Block her on your devices. Effectively call her bluff.

How your DH responds to it has to be left up to him. He is caught between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't want to be in this situation with his mum but nonetheless he is, due to her being so utterly ridiculous and manipulative. I think he too probably needs to just step back for a bit and let things cool down. He must know the kind of drama queen his mum is. This type of behaviour and narcissism on her part won't be anything new. She sounds a bit like my mum was and when she got too excessive I just cut her off for a few weeks until she behaved better and a bit more reasonably. People like this are capable of learning, but they need very firm handling and firm boundaries and are frankly just generally exhausting to deal with.

So sorry you are going through this OP, at what was already a difficult time for you. Try not to let your recovery be derailed by this batshit crazy, selfish woman on a power and ego trip. But make no mistake if this appalling behaviour is in any way pandered to, she will think she has won and will become even worse and more insufferable going forward.

How can she deny what she said? Is she delusional? DH has had a lifetime of her, her tactics, making it about herself.
Reassure him that he can continue to have a relationship with his mother but you won’t be involved in the relationship.
She is poisonous.
You know that you are not going crazy, if anything this gives you the opportunity to cut her off. DH can spend time with her if he wishes outside of the house. She’s a troublemaker.

Tbh she sounds like my mother. Always behaved like that and people, incl my now DH, genuinely thought it was ‘mothers n daughters, eh? <Snicker>’ until she went unto one 15months before our wedding… because she hadn’t had an invitation yet? Sent a 20 page handwritten letter that sounds like the texts that OP’s MiL sent in tone. I gave it to DH to read. He made it 2 pages in, and then looked at me and said - do we really need this in our lives? Do we want our kids exposed to this? Do we want them to see you crying every time she calls. Do you want to cry every time you interact?

I said no, and never spoke to her again. Best thing I ever did.

@GreenAcreFarm22 hope your DH will find the strength just to cut ties and prioritise his real family - you and your child.

Least said I think is the way forward now. Your husband, I daresay will in time repair things with his Mother, because she will be wanting this and will meet him more than half way. He would do well not to forget the accusations flung at you, including her diary of your ‘wrongs’. That in itself was very strange.

Going forward I would be giving her and the step -FIL a wide berth (why he needs to poke his oar in, heaven knows!!).

You are making the mistake of thinking your MIL is a reasonable person who wants to get along & meet you half way. She's not. No words you use will 'fix' this.

The detail of all the times that you've'wronged' alone is just nasty, negative, stupid stuff.

I'd keep her at arms length Don't contact don't engage. Let your husband bring the baby to see her. Take the heat out of rhe situation. MIL wants drama, upset, crying. Sad really.

Classic DARVO by MIL.

DARVO stands for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. It is a manipulative psychological tactic used by wrongdoers or abusers when held accountable for their behavior. Instead of accepting responsibility, the perpetrator denies the action, attacks the credibility of the person confronting them, and turns themselves into the victim

Yes, this is DARVO. I'd quietly stop contacting them and don't give MIL the drama she wants.

They all sound weird including your dh. He obviously has a weirdly close relationship with her. Lines have been crossed. For her to discuss your sex life! Is super odd. And it sound like he speaks negativity about you to her alot. Really you have a Dh problem. He needs better boundaries. Then she wouldn't have tried to emotionally manipulate him when he stands up to her. I bet she uses this method when she senses she is losing control over him. Or he is trying to put up boundaries in place.

I almost died during pre-mature birth and emergency C Section. I had multiple medical interventions shortly after baby was born. Came back from long hospital stay 11kg less than I was pre-pregnancy. 5 weeks pospartum - my MIL said my husband feels lonely because I sleep with baby in different room and did a "lesson " why sexual life is important.
I was NC with her for more than 5 years. Minimum contact now.
As a mum of 2 sons- I can't imagine doing these kind of things for DIL.

No point crying over spilt milk but this was why most people said leave it on the previous thread.
She'll forever be the victim and will try and use your own kids against you.

I remember your other thread. Your husband’s shitty behaviour aside, yes I agree his mother’s behaviour is manipulative and cruel. However, the best thing you can do here is refuse to engage with her. Don’t send photos, don’t message, don’t take an interest in her whatsoever. Your husband can deal with her entirely. He can take your child over to visit without you if he chooses to, but of course that means she won’t be included in special occasions- your child will be spending those with you and I would hope, your husband.

I learnt a good while ago, people like this can only treat you like crap if you let them.

As well as blocking the ILs and having nothing more to do with them, I'd be having a serious conversation with DH and ask him to not share any negative or personal details with his mum. If you have an argument, he shouldn't be running to mummy to tell her all about it. Ask him to be a grown up and discuss any issues concerning you, his wife, with you, not her. If she's keeping a tally of all your alleged 'wrongdoings' then she's never going to give him constructive and impartial advice.

Unfortunately for your husband I think she's turned this into a Mum versus Wife battle. And he obviously loves you both.

With a difficult mum (or a difficult wife I suppose in other families) there does come a time when the DH has to stand up to his mum if she's affecting his relationship. The post partum period is obviously a time when DW has to come first so good for your husband for doing that.

I think you have to tell him you appreciate him doing this for you. And letting him know you completely understand he wants a good relationship with his mum. And also explaining that to help with that for him (and for you, because you're vulnerable in the post partum phase) that you're going to step back. That you totally understand he'll keep seeing his mum and that he might want to take the DC to see her. But that you and her need a period of no contact to try to calm down the situation. Not a hostile blocking. But a kind of fire break period of time.

If she calls, you're polite to her and you call him to the phone. If he goes to see her, you send him and the kids off with a kiss and 'Have a lovely time.' So no animosity. But leave him and her to their relationship.

Well that's an excellent example of DARVO. Your MIL is not a normal person, don't try to understand her actions in the context of a normal person. You won't be able to. Maybe she's a full blown narcissist, maybe she's got narcissistic tendencies, who knows. But she's the one with the problem.

Quiety step back, and reduce your interactions with her. Support your husband in however he chooses to have a relationship with her because he will need it. So long as you and him priorise each other and your kids, and acknowledge that she's not normal, you'll be fine

I predict MIL will soon have chest pains, some sort of medical issue that the GP is very concerned about .
Followed by she doesn’t know what she’s done wrong, she’s a nice person and has lots of friends, everyone says it’s not her fault it’s the DIL…

Grey rock is the way forward, do not engage, don’t waste your time or your breath. Do not feed the drama.

I think you need to stop trying to be the bigger person here and tell DH that you want nothing more to do with her. He can take dc to see her but she should not be allowed in your home and you should not have to go to hers.

I read your post and immediate thought narcissism too, particularly a type called covert of vulnerable, which basically involves being a bitch and then insisting you are in fact the victim.

There are some really good videos about this on you tube if you're interested - Dr Ramani and one called border liners. I'm pretty sure my own parents both have narcissistic traits (one I think had full blown npd).

One thing I would say is not to expect this to be a quick process with your DH. Growing up with narc parents, you almost develop a blindness to it, and you come up with all sorts of survival strategies to manage their behaviour. You described one in your post - he immediately tried to take the blame by saying he must have explained things badly. Narcs can never take responsibility for their actions and always need someone else to do it for them. Is he generally an anxious person, especially with regards to his mother?

Drop the rope with these people. Let DH see them when he wants to but don’t have them in your home.
Vile people.

I don't remember your post. But what they've done to you now is very very similar to how PILs behaved. The best think I ever did was say "ok that's fine, but I'm done." I don't have anything to do with them at all. There are a couple of people that feel sorry for them. Alot of people ask when we'll make up. And I just say, I'm not being treated like that anymore it's simple. I've not fallen out with them, I'm not harbouring anything , I'm just not letting myself be treated like that. So if you can't sit there and say that you recognise what you did, you shouldn't have done it, you won't do it again, I'm not even going to consider being around you. That would be stupid wouldn't it. To just keep putting yourself in the path of abuse.

It's a really shitty time when your DH realised his family are like that and he doesn't have the relationship he thought he did. It really hit my DH and he really tried still to hold on but without bending the knee and kissing their feet they didn't want to know.

Just take yourself out of it, they don't come in your home, you don't go to theirs, if DH wants to visit them he can. But it doesn't involve you or your kids.