AIBU to discuss A level success without private school spending?

[Absorbthecost]

Parents/carers who have not spent a penny on Educating their children and they have just received great A level results.

The sacrifices made all the struggle,

I’m interested to discuss families where the child has succeeded without need for private school

https://www.gbnews.com/money/private-school-fees-soar-vat

https://www.ft.com/content/091b214d-231b-414a-8f3e-9ef9fc021926?syn-25a6b1a6=1

Those who did pay,

presumably to secure great results at A level

The same kids off to Uni, placements easier to secure as less international competition. Uni the playing field evens.

And now time to pay for Uni,

https://inews.co.uk/news/education/university-tuition-fees-11000-2030-4705197?srsltid=AfmBOorss52PSHD6xJzisWMdeNxcXDen3IrCGS49nnGH1ZyDnmvTOh_k

A child who did outstanding (without spending a penny) the same result as a family who spent £250k + The above article is a low estimation for a selective U.K. day/ boarding.

The kids holding the same result off to the same Uni, How are families feeling!?…. Did you save to help towards the Uni Fees/accomodation.

Of course it is different. Most independent schools aren't 15 kids per class btw.

However it is still a form of private education. Buying advantage over others (apparently)

At my children’s private schools the classes were about 25 up to gcse and about 12-15 at a-level. When j was at private school my class has 28 pupils in it. Classes of 15 were in in primary school

you are gorgeous!

But nowhere near the same at all. An hour a week after school if you’re lucky by somebody no longer teaching or not having taught at all is not the same as being in tiny classes and having £30k of education at your fingertips all day every day at school, connections, coaching in class and out every single day by fully trained teachers employed by the parents of the kids they’re teaching.

Which schools have these tiny classes? Seriously. 25 per class is the norm. My class in the 90s had 28 as I was a bulge class. Nothing has changed in my children’s school. No private school can operate with small classes now - totally uneconomic.

Most I knew were about 3-4 hrs a week tutor. And private school classes aren't tiny. they are smaller than 30 though. 25 on average afaik

all the other things you say are correct of course. I was simply relating it to say a level grades and admissions to uni. They say state school yey 4 A stars - but don't consider the private tutoring ofc. At least they have stopped blindly accepting grammars as normal bog standard stae schools these days.

poor typing sorry - i'm in a hurry to leave now!

Oh come on, it’s well known that private schools have small classes sizes. It’s even used by some MNers as an excuse when they feel their kid is entitled to a private education on the state at the expense of the majority of SEND kids who have to manage in the state sector.

for our school you are looking at 16-18 at GCSE and 8-12 for ALEVEL. Possibly even smaller for less popular subjects.

Virtually 100% of private (independent) schools maintain small classes as a core operational standard. Data from the Independent Schools Council (ISC) census shows an average student-to-teacher ratio of roughly 9 to 1, and average class sizes hover between 9 and 18 pupils, compared to state-funded school classes averaging 26 to 27 pupils.

Which schools? I’m not saying that it isn’t the case but I don’t know of any. Usually the talk of smaller classes sizes is in the context of primary schools where yes, classes of 15 is more common than the 25-30 in state primaries.

The evidence is everywhere, just do a search.

Where? I can only speak from experience. Form size of my eldest’s school was about 25. all subjects daughter as a class up to year 10.

All compulsory GCSE’s such as English and sciences were done as a a form. Options were often a bit smaller due to numbers so art was a class of about 10. Maths/languages split out a bit more into maybe 18-20. Others just varied by numbers who took them. Pretty standard stuff. Certainly i don’t know of any schools who can afford to run classes of 15 at GCSe level as standard. But I’m London. Maybe elsewhere in the country they can do that.

Private schools don't necessarily mean this. From private teaching experience, i've seen non-specialists and unqualifieds teaching core subjects. Because of money issues and not needing to adhere to union rules, i've seen teachers so overstretched and stressed they certainly don't have time to plan excellent lessons, nor give students or tutees the one to one parents expect.

However, smaller class sizes, student vouces are genuinely heard, nowhere near state school behaviour/issues.

Grades: I think average. Remember, for every parent who pays for grades, there will be others where private school is just the norm and they're not overly worried about grades.

Is it an unfair system? Absolutely! Most people has no chance of being able to choose/afford private. Should we ban them? No. Absolutely not. State schools are bursting at the seams.

DD will be in a class of 2 for one of her subjects next year in Year 13 at a state school. The other two subjects are 20 and 25 respectively. If she were doing A levels in Music, Latin and German all her A level classes would have been less than a handful. So this happens in state too. GCSE standard classes were 28-30 but the lowest maths sets were smaller, for example. Some options were smaller too, again certain languages, Latin, Music. It is not that many schools aren’t offering or trying to offer these subjects - lots of kids aren’t picking them. Things like Economics and Psychology are far more popular at A level now than French or German.

fair enough - just not any we know tbh (secondary)

What a ride!

I think results are also mostly down to the child. If they are incredibly bright and motivated they will succeed at any decent school - sorry, you are joking, right?

Depending on their age (reference to East European brilliant and state-only education system until 1992), East Europeans as parents can fill in for a strict priest, a philosopher, a maths, physics and sciences teacher, and an ice-skating coach. Better than any private school. Again, depending on their age, they can rule with an iron rod - their children don't know what it is to be lazy, experiment with drugs or 'apply for film studies'. 4 languages FLUENTLY - must be Romanian (also, very likely bragging - simply not old enough to absorb all the cultural fluency in 4 cultures), and they are used to living in horrid conditions, so they will be fighters, very resilient children.

But what is the point you are making?

Sorry, you can't increase your IQ. Tinker around at the edges, yes.

https://www.anitacollinsmusic.com.au

https://www.classicfm.com/music-news/musicians-train-young-age-have-more-connected-brains/

A lot of what young children are exposed to has a long term structural impact on their brain. Just because some people see playing musical instruments as elitist - does not mean the opportunity to play them does not have real long term positive impacts on brain development.
The recent language delays documented by screen use in parents and toddlers are probably more interesting to a Labour Government.

But essentially a lot of middle class parenting with or without the added privilege of private education - the eating and talking and reading together and exposure to social and cultural capital including music lessons and books - has real long term positive impacts on brain development and maximising IQ potential. So does education, and increased schooling in number of years over the last century has made people smarter.
Although apparently that is now reversed since the smart phone era (Flynn effect reversal). When the apes discovered language and then tools and then early humans started recording language in script - the brains of humans evolved and grew. Smart phones and AI if overused are a delegation of human cognition onto a machine - overreliance is likely to make humanity dumber in the long run.

I am summarising a lot or different recent studies but with open access plenty is readily available online. More recently there is so much awareness on early years and impact there.

The elite private schools have experts advising them on current educational thinking. Most of us can’t afford the elite education - but to deny that what they do is effective is another matter entirely. They are also able to adapt quicker - you will have seen plenty ban smart phones before the State did.

Nope

My Comp educated daughter did not have any tutoring. Most schools offer after school ‘top up’ sessions, where students can get further support. She used these to practice previous exam questions and specific techniques.
She sailed through uni and got a double first in Chem Engineering.

That's brilliant for her - she must be a very bright spark!

Thank you.
Now you can say you have heard of someone who did well without tutoring xx

@cityliving99 'If they are incredibly bright and motivated they will succeed at any decent school.'

Bright
Motivated
Decent school

I'd also add - supportive family - for me that made the difference. I was at a dreadful sink comprehensive, a holding pen if you like. But my parents are uni educated and supportive, so despite the school I had them. I didn't have tutoring or any of that, we had no money at all. I did well enough at school, then went to a rubbish generic college and did ok again. Enough to get 4 A Levels and a couple of degrees after that and now a good career. I could have done better - if eg. I'd had gone to a grammar school (we did have one 20 miles away but I wanted to go where my friends were going so i did).

There aren't that many decent schools (though thousands of decent teachers, I always support the teachers they've got a very tough job). Families aren't always supportive. Many many children fall through the cracks and many (most) children don't achieve their potential.

So where yes what you say is true sometimes, even if a child has all of those things (unusual) they still might not achieve what they could have achieved, or had as good a school experience as they could have had at an excellent private school. That's just reality. There will always be exceptions ofc.