To think climate change will force a complete rethinking about immigration?

[OneMoreBanana]

I'm not sure how many people, on the ground or in government policy making, have connected the dots here.

The climate crisis disproportionately affects the global south, where average temperatures are hotter, infrastructure less developed and available economic resources for mitigation lower. This is already making life in some areas, that have previously supported human communities for thousands of years, near impossible. There is talk of whole cities having to be abandoned.

The same crisis is primarily created by the industrialised countries of the global north, whose per capita emissions far outweigh those of less industrialised countries.

So if/when the large scale exodus of millions of people from no-longer-habitable environments becomes inevitable, two questions arise: Is it MORAL to disallow those people asylum in countries like the UK? And is it PRACTICABLE to do so - when the "small boats" issue becomes an increasingly large number of increasingly large boats, do we literally just view it as warfare and gun them down, or what?

These questions apply regardless of how you feel about immigration currently. If you are a hardline Brexiteer or otherwise strongly for controlling and reducing immigration, can you see a point in the future where it will no longer be tenable, either morally or practically, to maintain that position? And if you are liberal on immigration, can you see a point where having to be even more liberal will mean letting go altogether of many aspects of the UK's (and other countries') "identity"?

Interested in a range of perspectives - I think there's a whole bunch of sacred cows that may end up slaughtered by this. However if you believe that climate change either isn't happening or isn't due to human activity, please just jog on past and grow a brain cell or two. Life is too short.

But the extremely rich would do well to remember that they are massively outnumbered and largely remain enormously wealthy by consent.

@SmallTreeDeepRoots that sounds vaguely threatening. What will happen to the rich if those who outnumber them no longer consent?

@38thparallel I’m not threatening anyone. But the world is full of actual historical incidents when those in power or those hoarding extreme wealth were toppled by angry people who felt hard done by. Which is why some billionaires make efforts to appear philanthropic and benevolent. If people are struggling to live through a resource crisis or extreme weather event, many will either vent their rage towards those who have hoarded wealth to make their lives less fragile or will storm the barricades to access food, clean water etc. Desperate people will act desperately- this is logical. My birth country collapsed in a civil war between haves and have nots. Sri Lanka had a similar situation over fuel last year. How long will Cuba hold it together? Are we not already seeing more and more division in the UK? What is the rise of reform/restore and worse if not an exploitation of the fact that many people are struggling and are ready to be told “it’s not your fault, we can fix this”.

@SmallTreeDeepRoots thank you for answering my question.
There may be a revolution in UK but the very rich will flee in their private jets at the hint of trouble.
How long will Cuba hold it together This is interesting. They’ve managed to hold out against the USA for decades - people have said for years, ‘oh you must go to Cuba before the regime collapses’ and yet maybe the Cuban people will finally have had enough of their corrupt leaders and overthrow them.

@38thparallel Cuba is interesting because they have had energy crunches before (very interesting 2005(?) documentary about the post-soviet energy crunches available online) but this time they are getting more angry. Especially as the elite are seen to have access to more reliable power while the hospitals are collapsing with literally no lights and water.

As for billionaires flying away, there really is no away. Wherever they go, they will be vulnerable. No bunker is enough, particularly when they will no doubt be having staff to do the grunt work. Private island? Who will be growing food, keeping the lights on, delivering supplies to the island? Desperate people will see they have the water/supplies they are lacking. The most pacifist of people will grab a pitchfork when they (or their kids) are starving while others in reach are living like hogs. If you don’t realise that then you have had a fortunate life cushioned from oppression and extreme want. My teenage cousin was shot dead for 4 AA batteries. My neighbour was stabbed trying to stop someone siphoning petrol out of his car. When it all goes to shit, it all goes to shit. What I hope for is a smooth transition, a staircase catabolic collapse. A series of events that reduce our standard of living a little, followed by a period of recovery that never quite recovers to the previous level. Then repeat. In fact, this is the process we are currently in. If it continues we will have a manageable decline. But climate change is neither steady nor controlled.

The global South covers a great many counties. Some are well off, some have large numbers of very well off leaders. A great many have vast resources of minerals, opportunities for wealth creation and a highly educated workforce. Do they have the initiative to come up with solutions themselves? I'm sure they could.
Are leaders of some countries corrupt, inept and happy to drain money from other countries - oh yes.
Should we treat them as naive, poor innocents ? No, as equals.

Illegal migrants can bring with them environmental issues.
In just 2 weeks, illegal immigrants turned Cueta into an environmental concern. Shacks made of cloth and cardboard are on the beach. Garbage and human excrement everywhere. The smell is awful, birds have disappeared from the beach. There is a health crisis, scabies, TB, diarrhoea. Over 10 women already raped, including a 10-year-old girl. Men everywhere, Spanish women not going to the area of beach affected.

None of this helps the climate.

They’ve all ignored climate change bar the box ticking exercises occasionally.
They need to deal with current immigration right now, future immigration can wait.
As long as countries are bombing each other, slaughtering humans, killing communities, 10,000’s are being slaughtered in Sudan, Nigeria and the Congo, bodies piled in rivers, Russia, Ukraine, America, Iran, Israel, Lebanon all throwing explosives.
1000’s of bodies decomposing in Gaza
Deal with the current immigration crisis there is no hope of repairing climate damage while lunatics are running the world.