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Whats the point of consent and asking permission if you get lied to

575 replies

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Yesterday 17:52

Whats the point of consent and permission ? friends meal and they cover the cost, they said here is x amount get what you want, so permission is asked what the limit is eg £20 and i can get whatever food / takeaway with it, the yes permission is given that i can buy what i want within the budget.

turns out a day or two after wards a sarcastic comment was made because i had 2 jacket potatoes with different toppings, so i said why is that an issue and it turns out that they still thought id get one instead of two ,

so i said i asked permission of what the budget was and i did ask what i could get then all i got was oh id still thought you would get 1 so i said why then say i can get x why not just say and be honest.

i guess this is more me moaning but why do people do this, say yes to x then they actually want you do to x instead its like why ?

before anyone asks we usually do a weekly meal out, and no they are fairly wealthy

OP posts:
JWhipple · Today 06:35

Just say next time you'll pay for your own. That way you can order 3 jacket spuds if you want.

WhatNoRaisins · Today 06:59

I don't get how this friend hasn't learned to change their own behaviour if this arrangement bothers them so much.

Terfarina · Today 07:12

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 00:13

true, but it would help if they said only one meal, as i had already asked the budget so to me its mixed communications

I don’t think anyone would expect someone to order two meals and it wouldn’t occur to say don’t order yourself two dinners

TheDivergentEnigma · Today 07:13

OP, they've given you an inch and you've taken a mile.

BudgetBuster · Today 07:13

WhatNoRaisins · Today 06:59

I don't get how this friend hasn't learned to change their own behaviour if this arrangement bothers them so much.

Tbf... the OP keeps referring to the friend "moaning" when in reality the friend never moaned, merely mentioned the fact the OP ordered more than usual.

Terfarina · Today 07:15

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 00:33

ill try

If yiu do and she orders two portions of fish and chips how would you feel?

MademoisellePraline · Today 08:32

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 00:41

in terms of the shades of grey you can only ask a person then its upto them if they accept

So how come you have no control over having to accept being paid for every week?

Excellentsausages · Today 18:45

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 00:41

in terms of the shades of grey you can only ask a person then its upto them if they accept

That's not true at all. Just hand your card or however you pay there to the cashier etc and say my turn etc. Don't give her a choice.

Millytante · Today 18:59

BudgetBuster · Today 06:27

Funny how you accept every single weekend. Honestly I'd be so embarrassed to meet someone every week for them to buy my meal.

Do you think you are on the spectrum?

If OP wasn’t beforehand, she will say is now, after learning how generously her bad manners will be forgiven her once the A word is dropped!

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:15

Millytante · Today 18:59

If OP wasn’t beforehand, she will say is now, after learning how generously her bad manners will be forgiven her once the A word is dropped!

yes indeed, im an arse but people should say what they mean and not leave it upto guessing

OP posts:
MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:17

The Sheldon version

Sheldon: “I have a question. If someone tells me, ‘You have £20. Get whatever food you want,’ what exactly am I permitted to purchase?”

Friend: “Whatever you want, as long as it’s within £20.”

Sheldon: “Excellent. Then I have established the parameters of the agreement. £20 is the upper financial limit, and the choice of food is at my discretion.”

Friend: “Yes.”

Sheldon: “So if I purchase two jacket potatoes, each with a different topping, and the total cost is £19.50, I have complied with the agreement.”

Friend: “Well... I thought you'd only get one.”

Sheldon: “That is irrelevant.”

Friend: “Why?”

Sheldon: “Because you did not communicate that restriction. You communicated a budget, not a quantity limitation. If your actual intention was ‘You may have one jacket potato, provided it costs no more than £20,’ then that is what you should have said.”

Friend: “But surely you knew what I meant?”

Sheldon: “No. I knew what you said. Those are demonstrably different things.”

Friend: “I just assumed you'd get one.”

Sheldon: “Then we have identified the problem. You substituted an assumption for a condition.”

Friend: “It wasn't meant to be a big deal.”

Sheldon: “Then why make the sarcastic comment two days later?”

Friend: “Because I thought two was excessive.”

Sheldon: “Then you should have established a restriction before granting permission. Otherwise you are effectively changing the rules after the experiment has concluded.”

Friend: “You’re being ridiculous.”

Sheldon: “No. I am being extraordinarily literal because you gave me literal instructions.”

The problem isn't really the second jacket potato. The problem is that the person apparently asked for the relevant boundary — “What is the budget?” — and was given an answer that appeared to establish the boundary: £20 and choose what you want.

They then acted within that stated boundary. Discovering afterwards that the giver had privately intended an additional restriction creates an entirely avoidable problem.

There is an important distinction between permission and permission subject to undisclosed conditions. If I say, “You can choose whatever you like for dinner, up to £20,” the ordinary interpretation is that I have delegated the choice to you, subject to the £20 ceiling.

If I actually mean, “You can choose whatever you like, but I expect you to buy only one main item,” then that restriction is part of the permission and should be communicated.

Otherwise, asking permission becomes almost meaningless.

The person seeking permission cannot make an informed decision because the supposedly relevant rules are concealed in the other person's head.

The fairest response from the friend would therefore have been something like:
“Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was thinking of one jacket potato rather than two. If I'd realised you wanted two, I'd have said so beforehand.”

That acknowledges the actual communication failure.

OP posts:
MoistVonL · Today 20:17

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:15

yes indeed, im an arse but people should say what they mean and not leave it upto guessing

They didn't.

FinallyDecided · Today 20:19

I'm surprised you have friends

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:19

MoistVonL · Today 20:17

They didn't.

i asked what the budget was and could i get what i wanted and they said yes, so to me get what i wanted was 2 potatoes

OP posts:
MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:20

FinallyDecided · Today 20:19

I'm surprised you have friends

well it is tricky when you have to second guess what they say

OP posts:
BudgetBuster · Today 20:21

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:17

The Sheldon version

Sheldon: “I have a question. If someone tells me, ‘You have £20. Get whatever food you want,’ what exactly am I permitted to purchase?”

Friend: “Whatever you want, as long as it’s within £20.”

Sheldon: “Excellent. Then I have established the parameters of the agreement. £20 is the upper financial limit, and the choice of food is at my discretion.”

Friend: “Yes.”

Sheldon: “So if I purchase two jacket potatoes, each with a different topping, and the total cost is £19.50, I have complied with the agreement.”

Friend: “Well... I thought you'd only get one.”

Sheldon: “That is irrelevant.”

Friend: “Why?”

Sheldon: “Because you did not communicate that restriction. You communicated a budget, not a quantity limitation. If your actual intention was ‘You may have one jacket potato, provided it costs no more than £20,’ then that is what you should have said.”

Friend: “But surely you knew what I meant?”

Sheldon: “No. I knew what you said. Those are demonstrably different things.”

Friend: “I just assumed you'd get one.”

Sheldon: “Then we have identified the problem. You substituted an assumption for a condition.”

Friend: “It wasn't meant to be a big deal.”

Sheldon: “Then why make the sarcastic comment two days later?”

Friend: “Because I thought two was excessive.”

Sheldon: “Then you should have established a restriction before granting permission. Otherwise you are effectively changing the rules after the experiment has concluded.”

Friend: “You’re being ridiculous.”

Sheldon: “No. I am being extraordinarily literal because you gave me literal instructions.”

The problem isn't really the second jacket potato. The problem is that the person apparently asked for the relevant boundary — “What is the budget?” — and was given an answer that appeared to establish the boundary: £20 and choose what you want.

They then acted within that stated boundary. Discovering afterwards that the giver had privately intended an additional restriction creates an entirely avoidable problem.

There is an important distinction between permission and permission subject to undisclosed conditions. If I say, “You can choose whatever you like for dinner, up to £20,” the ordinary interpretation is that I have delegated the choice to you, subject to the £20 ceiling.

If I actually mean, “You can choose whatever you like, but I expect you to buy only one main item,” then that restriction is part of the permission and should be communicated.

Otherwise, asking permission becomes almost meaningless.

The person seeking permission cannot make an informed decision because the supposedly relevant rules are concealed in the other person's head.

The fairest response from the friend would therefore have been something like:
“Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was thinking of one jacket potato rather than two. If I'd realised you wanted two, I'd have said so beforehand.”

That acknowledges the actual communication failure.

Edited

Holy bejebus mother effing christ 🙄

It wasn't a condition... they paid for the stupid potatoes. They didn't even moan, yiu just made that up, they merely made a comment. Your friend must be a saint.

(Edited for typo)

ShetlandishMum · Today 20:25

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:17

The Sheldon version

Sheldon: “I have a question. If someone tells me, ‘You have £20. Get whatever food you want,’ what exactly am I permitted to purchase?”

Friend: “Whatever you want, as long as it’s within £20.”

Sheldon: “Excellent. Then I have established the parameters of the agreement. £20 is the upper financial limit, and the choice of food is at my discretion.”

Friend: “Yes.”

Sheldon: “So if I purchase two jacket potatoes, each with a different topping, and the total cost is £19.50, I have complied with the agreement.”

Friend: “Well... I thought you'd only get one.”

Sheldon: “That is irrelevant.”

Friend: “Why?”

Sheldon: “Because you did not communicate that restriction. You communicated a budget, not a quantity limitation. If your actual intention was ‘You may have one jacket potato, provided it costs no more than £20,’ then that is what you should have said.”

Friend: “But surely you knew what I meant?”

Sheldon: “No. I knew what you said. Those are demonstrably different things.”

Friend: “I just assumed you'd get one.”

Sheldon: “Then we have identified the problem. You substituted an assumption for a condition.”

Friend: “It wasn't meant to be a big deal.”

Sheldon: “Then why make the sarcastic comment two days later?”

Friend: “Because I thought two was excessive.”

Sheldon: “Then you should have established a restriction before granting permission. Otherwise you are effectively changing the rules after the experiment has concluded.”

Friend: “You’re being ridiculous.”

Sheldon: “No. I am being extraordinarily literal because you gave me literal instructions.”

The problem isn't really the second jacket potato. The problem is that the person apparently asked for the relevant boundary — “What is the budget?” — and was given an answer that appeared to establish the boundary: £20 and choose what you want.

They then acted within that stated boundary. Discovering afterwards that the giver had privately intended an additional restriction creates an entirely avoidable problem.

There is an important distinction between permission and permission subject to undisclosed conditions. If I say, “You can choose whatever you like for dinner, up to £20,” the ordinary interpretation is that I have delegated the choice to you, subject to the £20 ceiling.

If I actually mean, “You can choose whatever you like, but I expect you to buy only one main item,” then that restriction is part of the permission and should be communicated.

Otherwise, asking permission becomes almost meaningless.

The person seeking permission cannot make an informed decision because the supposedly relevant rules are concealed in the other person's head.

The fairest response from the friend would therefore have been something like:
“Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was thinking of one jacket potato rather than two. If I'd realised you wanted two, I'd have said so beforehand.”

That acknowledges the actual communication failure.

Edited

This is simply insane and bs.

gamerchick · Today 20:27

FFS just suck it up and pay for their dinner next time.

ShetlandishMum · Today 20:27

FinallyDecided · Today 20:19

I'm surprised you have friends

Maybe not for long if OP treat them with long Sheldon monologues.

BeardySchnauzer · Today 20:28

Haven’t you given up yet

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Today 20:29

ShetlandishMum · Today 20:25

This is simply insane and bs.

Edited

I honestly thought had imagined this thread last night…
Jesus, Mary and the wee donkey it’s bloody batshittery at the finest!!

BudgetBuster · Today 20:29

ShetlandishMum · Today 20:25

This is simply insane and bs.

Edited

The time and effort to write all that garbage... and all it does is further state that the OP hasn't an iota of normal social interactions and that even 22 pages of a thread haven't given the OP one inkling they might be wrong.

KilkennyCats · Today 20:30

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:17

The Sheldon version

Sheldon: “I have a question. If someone tells me, ‘You have £20. Get whatever food you want,’ what exactly am I permitted to purchase?”

Friend: “Whatever you want, as long as it’s within £20.”

Sheldon: “Excellent. Then I have established the parameters of the agreement. £20 is the upper financial limit, and the choice of food is at my discretion.”

Friend: “Yes.”

Sheldon: “So if I purchase two jacket potatoes, each with a different topping, and the total cost is £19.50, I have complied with the agreement.”

Friend: “Well... I thought you'd only get one.”

Sheldon: “That is irrelevant.”

Friend: “Why?”

Sheldon: “Because you did not communicate that restriction. You communicated a budget, not a quantity limitation. If your actual intention was ‘You may have one jacket potato, provided it costs no more than £20,’ then that is what you should have said.”

Friend: “But surely you knew what I meant?”

Sheldon: “No. I knew what you said. Those are demonstrably different things.”

Friend: “I just assumed you'd get one.”

Sheldon: “Then we have identified the problem. You substituted an assumption for a condition.”

Friend: “It wasn't meant to be a big deal.”

Sheldon: “Then why make the sarcastic comment two days later?”

Friend: “Because I thought two was excessive.”

Sheldon: “Then you should have established a restriction before granting permission. Otherwise you are effectively changing the rules after the experiment has concluded.”

Friend: “You’re being ridiculous.”

Sheldon: “No. I am being extraordinarily literal because you gave me literal instructions.”

The problem isn't really the second jacket potato. The problem is that the person apparently asked for the relevant boundary — “What is the budget?” — and was given an answer that appeared to establish the boundary: £20 and choose what you want.

They then acted within that stated boundary. Discovering afterwards that the giver had privately intended an additional restriction creates an entirely avoidable problem.

There is an important distinction between permission and permission subject to undisclosed conditions. If I say, “You can choose whatever you like for dinner, up to £20,” the ordinary interpretation is that I have delegated the choice to you, subject to the £20 ceiling.

If I actually mean, “You can choose whatever you like, but I expect you to buy only one main item,” then that restriction is part of the permission and should be communicated.

Otherwise, asking permission becomes almost meaningless.

The person seeking permission cannot make an informed decision because the supposedly relevant rules are concealed in the other person's head.

The fairest response from the friend would therefore have been something like:
“Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was thinking of one jacket potato rather than two. If I'd realised you wanted two, I'd have said so beforehand.”

That acknowledges the actual communication failure.

Edited

The only relevant communication failure is your failure to understand that you should put your hand in your pocket at least 50% of the time.
What sort of leech carries on like this?
“I get my lunch paid for every single time we meet but she objected to me guzzling two jacket potatoes - what is her problem?

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:31

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · Today 20:29

I honestly thought had imagined this thread last night…
Jesus, Mary and the wee donkey it’s bloody batshittery at the finest!!

i love the comment

OP posts:
ShetlandishMum · Today 20:31

MrsOctaviaCharlotteSmythe · Today 20:20

well it is tricky when you have to second guess what they say

Just pay yourself! Got it?