Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

No, he should have known it’s not ok to be late every day and he should have got an early train without being told, from the beginning. He has to uphold his end of the contract.
When he said they were ‘ok’ with it - clearly they weren’t. Hope he learns his lesson here.

If he is turning up late according to his contract everyday then I don't think he has a leg to stand on, probation periods or even within the first two years, employers can get rid of you for almost anything. Unless he is getting the first train of the day I don't get why you wouldn't just get the earlier train anyway, gives such a bad impression to turn up late from day one whether it was verbally agreed or not, I hate being late and would always opt to be early than a few mins late. Maybe this was a convenient excuse to use to get rid of him, maybe the job isn't suited to him or he wasn't pulling his weight. Would suggest making sure his next job he can get to on time to avoid being an issue again

This - he needs to start living in the real world (and so do you).
He’s obviously not taking his job very seriously if he’s late EVERY DAY!
Instead of being furious on his behalf (which achieves nothing) you should be giving him some life lessons on how to keep a job.

One of two things has happened either he’s been a little generous with the truth and perhaps he’s more than a few minutes or one of his new colleagues has complained. It’s a harsh lesson, if the employer has told him it’s ‘ok’ I can understand your disappointment for your son. Realistically all you can do is support him and suggest that he needs to be there 5 mins before hand so he can make a cuppa ready to start. Hope he finds a new job soon.

Not sure if anyone has done the maths yet as I haven’t read the whole thread. Assuming a full time job at 5 days a week with regular amount of annual leave and bank holidays, that leaves 225 days in the year
5 minutes late every day across that rquals over 18 hours across the year. Assuming an 8 hour working day that’s nearly 2.5 days not worked that people who turn up on time are doing.

To be fair there are times in one’s career where going the extra mile or above and beyond what you’re paid to do can really help you progress. I’m pretty sure if I’d just done what I was paid to do between 9 and 5 I wouldn’t have got all of the opportunities or promotions I did, and therefore been able to retire when I did. So I’m glad traded that 100 or 200 hours a year or whatever it was in the first 10 years of my career for an extra 15 years of retirement at the end :)

Of course, if the extra becomes expected and there are no returns then I agree, why bother. But IME the payback is good and the effort worth it - as long as you’re astute enough to work out what’s worth going the extra mile for.

Completely agree. It’s naive in the extreme to think that being late every day is acceptable. I expect that when he was told ‘it’s okay’, that was simply accepting his reason for being late on the first occasion, but with an expectation he’d do something about it for subsequent days. Compounded by whoever told him ‘it’s okay’ being terribly British in the first place by saying ‘it’s okay’ while internally seething that the new boy in a new job couldn’t even be bothered to get to work on time ;)

Why did he choose a train that would get him there late every day? Rather than the earlier train in the first place?

Sorry, my mistake, it would appear that the one instance of being able to go to an employment tribunal when you have a month's service and discrimination isn't involved is not having been told you can have a companion when they sack you. I didn't know that.

He'd be mad. If he wasn't told, and we don't know, then for not being told he could have a companion he can go to a tribunal in a year or two's time after it's wound it's way through the system and claim 2 weeks pay and let the HR world know that he was sacked for not keeping time instead of leaving this job off his CV and quietly forgetting it.

Apologies again for my lack of research.

Given how hugely entitled his mum is being on his behalf is it any wonder that this lad seems to think it's ok to be late to work and not expect any consequences for it? Mum must've known catching that particular train was cutting it fine at least considering she stated that she asked him if he was getting to work on time, which is when he told her no he isn't but the employer says it's ok cos they understand he catches a train. At that point he should've had the common sense to catch the earlier one rather than carry on thinking it's alright they wont mind a few minutes. You'll probably find he may have had verbal warnings before getting that email telling him to get the earlier train

I get a 40 min train journey (2 trains actually) and I’m never late. I get the earlier train that gets me there far too early in order to avoid being late when there are issues. It was a bit silly of him to think it was OK to just be consistently late because he wouldn’t get an earlier train. Sure if that was the only train that runs in the morning fine but it’s not so he shouldn’t have assumed that being late was ever going to be Ok.

I know you have said he changed to get the earlier train eventually. But that should’ve been the obvious choice from day dot. It’s clearly left them with a really bad impression that he didn’t even think to get the train prior:.. aka the one that would get him to work on time. It shows lack of drive, intelligence, manners, intuition, enthusiasm and a belief that it’s better to be late than early (never true for work).

So from all this, the lesson you’ve told him to learn is not to trust people? That’s very odd OP.

Clearly the lesson here, is punctuality matters. As does communication. He should have spoken with his boss and asked for flexible working if needed, starting AND FINISHING 15 mins later. That wouldn’t have to be accepted but would have been the logical request.

Or just get the earlier train.

It’s basic OP, basic etiquette. I’ve always arrived early at work, I’d never dream of arriving late everyday, even if it’s 3 minutes. It shows a disrespect for your contract.

As his mum, you should be comforting him and reminding him next time to be there on time, that it matters. Not slagging the employer off. I’m also not sure why you’re coming back to £17 fare constantly either. It’s HIS responsibility to get into work, at which point they met with him and told him his unreliability is untenable. It’s not their fault he travelled into work that day.

Pandering isn’t helping your son. He needs to get in the real world asap and learn adult expectations. Arrive on time, work hard, be polite and professional. Until you’re the boss, you don’t get to decide, you fall in line.

My stepdaughter got herself a good job with a bank call centre, and was doing really well until she was summarily dismissed near the end of her probationary period for being late back to work after her break three times... She learned a harsh lesson. She genuinely thought they'd just extend the probationary period, but no....

Un Your son has no legal rights after such a short space of time.
Sounds like the role was in AP or AR, I manage both of those functions for a large corporate company and can tell you, the holiday wouldn’t be an issue but I would not stand for someone being late everyday for any reason. I would have however looked to be flexible with start time if I could have.

Your are right about second chances however depending on when he started the new employment laws could have actually gone against him. From July 1st employees no longer have 2 years where they have little protection it’s now 6 months (which I think is great btw) but means you have to move quickly if you have someone in their probation period you’re not sure about.

out of interest what time did the earlier train get in?
I can’t believe it was so much earlier he couldn’t have gone to get a coffee or just be early and talk to manager formally about slightly adjusting start/finish times if the train only comes once an hour or something.
Unfortunately for your son, lateness is really frowned upon. Where I used to work I’d have to get there at least 20 mins early to get a parking space. I’d sit in my car for 10 mins catching up on WhatsApp and then go in and have 10 mins to faff about before starting work.

This is completely insane and is exactly what's wrong with the working environment now. The fact that your a fully grown adult parent and your coming on here to claim he's been treated unfairly is wild. An employer should not have to put up with someone turning up late everyday. A 40 minute train journey is a standard commute why on earth was he not getting an earlier train?! And why are you trying to justify that this behaviour is ok? You should of said you cant be late every day not now try to make out that behaviour is acceptable

Mummy’s little prince really can do no wrong, can he?

Common sense isn't common.

To be fair, I don't disagree. It's good to be flexible. But it's also good to be efficient, show you have strong and clear boundaries between work and life, and show that you respect yourself and your time.

I'm sorry but he should have got the earlier train from day one. I get that he is new to the world of work and employers are not so forgiving about lateness as school/college is. So if it didn't occur to him that being a few mins late each day was a problem then I'm afraid that is on you. If it was my son I would have had a discussion before he even started about how he was getting there and pointed out to him at that point that he needed to get an earlier train. So, yes, YABU

I hope your son is ok op and gets a new job soon.

i expect they weren’t happy with his work and used the lateness as an excuse. You don’t throw away a good worker for being a few minutes late especially if they had already agreed it.

He’s only telling you half a tale.

He probably wasn’t doing a great job either. I had a job when I was young and was always being late due to transport links, but I worked extra hard and stayed late to compensate. Did your son do those things? Honestly, to the best of his abilities?

OP’s DS will have made a good impression at interview - and didn’t get to interview through nepotism - or wouldn’t have been given the job. He’s made a mistake here but smug comments about how he could learn from someone else’s pampered prince are not helpful.

l don’t think being late for work every day because you can’t make the effort to get an earlier train can be called a ‘mistake’. And if the ‘pampered prince’ OP is to be believed her son had a very strong wok ethic to start with. Which seems to be what’s lacking here.