Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

Good point. I'd have went in early, had a tea or coffee, and got prepared for the day ahead. It's astonishing what you can get done in the peace and quiet before the rest arrive and the phones start going.

But the point is they hadn’t agreed to it - that’s obvious from the fact that the employer had to email DS to tell him to get an earlier train.

I am not sure getting a train is an excuse for being late. I used to take 90 minutes to get to work using two busses, tube and a train to cross London and have never been late.
You obviously know your son best but I wouldn't necessarily take it on blind faith that his employer was indeed OK with him being late every single day. Regardless, they are within their right to let him go during probation period for any reason whatsoever. There may have been other issues with his performance or not.. I guess we'll never know. He is an adult and I don't think you should be getting involved in this at all.

This was a conversation he should have had at the interview. Being prepared is part of that. We had a new employee who expressed he could do any hours on a 6-5.30 job working anywhere in between and got the job.
on day one he rolled up, manager was walking him him up the stairs when he said “oh about my hours, I can only do, and rattled off like 9-2” boss stopped on the stairs and told him he may as well walk back down, he was finished there and then.

There is a very good chance here that you are not being given the full story by your son.

I DO feel your son's employer should have spoken to him first before dismissing him, given him a warning, but .....

That said, there is no way you should arrive for work late and then repeat that behaviour every day for a week. If you are late once you should realise you need to leave earlier / get an earlier train and not let it happen again.

I do not believe for 1 second they agreed to him being late and then let him go because of that. Not a chance.

I'm sorry to say, because it's never nice hearing negative comments about your child, but if he was ok with being late every day and not doing something about it, this speaks volumes for what he was like in the rest of his work / his attitude in general.

It's also interesting that you can't see that yourself.

No way on god's earth my children would be late for anything, and if they were, they would be profusely sorry and it wouldn't happen again, I can tell you that for free! My 20 yr daughter, home from Uni, had to be somewhere new, for training, yesterday for 9am. It meant getting 3 trains and she had to be there at 9am. She didn't get in from work until 12.30am for the past 5 nights and was still 10 minutes early for training. That's how we roll in our house!

OP said he wasn’t happy there, that it was a terrible place to work, in less than a month. Seeing as it’s his second job, either the employers are no good or he isn’t any good. Regardless, being late and taking holiday which may or may not be approved is no excuse. The company don’t want to carry useless employees. And it’s not an easy job market now either.

I love how many mums posting on this site cannot fathom their child ever being in the wrong or making a mistake. Hundreds of people then say your kid fucked up and they just double down and don’t listen. Why bother posting?

No wonder your kid thinks he can rock up late and it’s fine when he’s been raised to never be in the wrong.

was he a few mins late or was he 15 mins late and stretching the truth? Most people
know it’s better to be early to work than consistently late. If his train had been cancelled or delayed he would have been very late and adults need to mitigate for this.

Are you serious? You think his employer should have to tell him to get an earlier train to get him to work on time?

He needs to get to work on time?? He accepted the job. He gets himself there. This isn’t rocket science. If he lacks the initiative to understand what time to start work, it was never going to end well was it.

He probably needs to stop taking employment advice from you too. Have you ever actually had a job.

My mind is completely blown. WTAF

On what planet is it ever ok to be late? If it were ok, it wouldn't be described as late would it?

I'm pretty sure no one in management has said "yeah, just rock up whenever you like"

Who told him it was ok? Did he get new start times in writing? life lesson here - when you get a new job, you don't act like you're not particularly bothered about it. Even if you're not!

This

It is very simple, he has failed his probation period, so yes they can let him go!

Yes. Next year…not now

You son has got no legal come back about this. He was late every morning, they certainly can sack him, there and then. He has to be working for the same employer for two years before, he could claim unfair dismissal

He’s also used holidays he has no yet accrued. I remember in my early working days you had to accrue holidays before you could book them. After a month he would have around 2 days leave to use, and he’s taken at least 5, maybe 10. I wonder if they were unpaid or if they will come out of his last pay.

It’s usual for employers to ask at interview if there are any planned holidays, and to honour them if they take on the person an an employee, so he may not have taken unauthorised holidays as some posters are assuming. But I think you make a good point in that he likely won’t have accrued all of the leave he took, so in the event that it wasn’t treated as unpaid leave, it will be taken out of his final pay.

I interviewed for a job at a facility near me. A good firm that paid well and had civilised shift patterns and conditions. It went well; I passed the dexterity test, and I had experience of the work, and I'd long worked every conceivable shift pattern you can think of. The problem was, I was going on a family holiday very soon. I didn't get it, and I think that was why.

This is the problem. This post right here. Your job, for whatever reason, is incredibly lax and it’s led you to believe that this is normal. It’s not. It’s really, really not. You, and your son, need to accept that right now, otherwise nothing is going to change. It is not normal for employees to turn up late (any employees, never mind half of them - repeatedly, and certainly not ones on probation) and the employer to not care. If you’re going to carry that thought forward into life then there’s going to be a lot more surprise sackings on the way.

I would assume that only if that was the first train, but it wasn’t. So he just didn’t bother leaving earlier?

Probation period is 12 weeks. Dismissal can be without giving a reason.

She's in a supermarket

Did they actually say that it was OK all the time though? I suspect what they actually said was, that’s ok for today. And then he probably didn’t listen to the, next time get an earlier train bit before his holidays…

Yep. It’s usual for employers to ask at interview if there are any holidays planned but they won’t always honour them. It sounds as though DS has informed them and they decided to honour them when they took him on. That doesn’t mean they’ll pay him for them though, having terminated his employment before he could accrue what was necessary to cover the holiday he took.

I think this about sums it up. The telling thing here is that the employer had to email him on his first day back after holidays to actually tell him to get the earlier train. That suggests they either thought that he was late the first time because of delays or that there wasn’t an earlier train. Clearly they’ve done some digging while he was away on holiday and decided he was taking the piss. I don’t understand why anyone thinks it’s acceptable to be late for work every single day just because you can’t drag your arse out of bed in time for an earlier train.

as an employer as I would definitely have been a bit perplexed about the request for lateness for a 40 min commute. 40 mins is a pretty average commute (in London anything less than an hour each way and you have a super quick commute) so would have been a bit unsure why they were even asking. So the even asking would have put my back up. In a new job I would have expected them to be getting there early, caffeinated and at their desk at the start time so probably 30 mins early. That likely would have coincided with the earlier train perhaps? Now if a person asked to be late as they were commuting 2 hours each way, I would have allowed some grace for that given the distance but otherwise even the asking if they could be late would have made them a kid I would likely let go unless their outlet was incredible.

Exactly, and unfortunately there is now a whole generation that cannot emotionally process this reality with breaking down.