Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

Has he got learning difficulties??

Son should have been responsible enough to get the earlier train from day one

🙄

is that the one where he got it through his parents' contacts and they're paying his rent?

As the sister of a man who has lost multiple jobs from his own fecklessness and always been spoiled and pampered and sheltered by our daft mother, I beg you to stop babying him. The best and kindest thing you can do is tell him bluntly that he should have been at work on time and to get off his arse, get another job, and stick to his contract next time. If he's upset - good. He deserves to be upset. He's been stupid and lazy. You think your'e being kind by being all indignant on his behalf by saying 'they said it was ok' and how they made him pay to come in and be sacked etc etc but you're not. Your'e setting him up to become an entitled man child who can't hold down a job. It's not a happy life, believe me.

What exactly was nasty about that comment?

Some people are incredulous about your son's lack of initiative / work ethic. You seem to be ambivalent, almost protective of it.

If I told my mum that work told me it was ok to be late every day, she would have told me to get my arse on the earlier train and make a good impression.

You either try to do the minimum and get away with it, or you make an actual effort.

Your defensiveness against anyone who's speaking against your son's behaviour says a lot.

Not okay to be sacked for persistent lateness during his Probationary Period? What planet are you on? Is this how low standards in Britain are these days?

Very well put.

You have proven quite definitively that you cannot take constructive criticism. The majority of people commenting don't agree with you and you're just stropping or being catty in response.

He actually made a good impression at the interview. He would have turned up on time

My 19 year lost his job after 2 months for time keeping.
I suspect by them “Being ok with it” he meant they didn’t make a big deal when he was late at first. I doubt he agreed a new start time, which is what you’re suggesting. My son’s employer changed his start time from 8am to 8:15am as he was late. He was still late! I was furious with him.
No employer is ok with them being late everyday, if they were they’d have changed his start time. I think your son is to blame here. If he knew the trains were close then a formalised arrangement was needed - they didn’t offer this, he didn’t ask, you can’t expect to be later every day in a new job. I think you’re anger is misdirected at the employer here.

You are still missing the point because you are too busy taking everything so personally.
It is not about what was said to him about being late or being good at the job. His being late isn't in dispute. That is the point. As in how, or why, did he think he could just start his job by even being late? That IS a failing of his and what needs to be addressed. You cannot go into a job thinking "meh, it's too far. I'm not going to put in any effort to catch an earlier train/bus, whatever"
He is at fault. It's a learning experience. Absolutely not worth such angst.

Sounds like your son said... Oh because of the trains I might occasionally be late... This doesn't translate as I will be late every day. Also they don't even have to give a reason given that at this stage in his employment he has basically no workers rights, although turning up late every day instead of getting an earlier train is a very valid one. Your child is no longer a child. They are an adult and needs to function as one. And you need to stop being so entitled that you think that what he was doing wasn't a massively issue. This is a learning curve for you both.

Going out on a limb, I’d imagine they said nothing of the sort and he has assumed it was ‘Okay’ as he hadn’t been pulled up on it……until he was

OP you are obviously upset on your DS behalf. Tough lesson for him to learn, but one that shouldn’t have even been an issue imho. First rule of a new job? GET IN EARLY!

I'll never cease to be surprised at people proudly boasting about how much of a doormat or martyr they can be.

Why couldn't he get the tasks done in his normal work time?

How do you know your son was telling the truth about it being fine to turn up late? What employer is ok with anyone turning up late? I think he's being very economical with the truth unfortunately and you've fallen for it. He didn't want to get the earlier train and thought he could get away with it.... 👍🏼

Karma but your son on the ar*e for turning up to work late!

Trains are pants since covid. I get a very early train (6.31) to make sure I in work on time as best I can be. It works. Getting home is entirely a diff matter. I hate commuting by train now. So I have a lot of empathy with your DS.

Sadly employers can still sack people during probation with no reason. He could appeal it and try to reason with them, but I think he will be wasting his time. He could write to them, tell them how upset he was when train performance was the cause of the issue and that had been acceptable as noone raised this with him. He could add that he covered the lost time by taking shorter lunch breaks or staying late (assuming he did this). Big lesson to be learnt if he didn't. It probably won't get him his job back, but he would have squared it off on his side - sounds like they didn't give him a chance to say anything or be represented which is poor performance but no way to challenge it as he has no rights to claim unfair dismissal.

I'd suggest your DS looks for a job more locally if that's possible.

Ref reason for leaving, he can just say it wasn't what he wanted to do or something similarly glib.

He will need a reference but they should just state he worked there from x to y date and nothing more.

Please also use your experience to help him avoid these pitfalls in future.

Unless he had it negotiated in his employment contract, what he was told verbally or what he believed he was told is irrelevant.
I'm assuming it could also be down to him not making up the time, taking the full lunch break etc on top of the frequent tardiness which brought his reliability in question.
Obviously a formal warning would have been preferred, but as others have said, the employer is well within their rights to terminate during his probation period.

He (and you possibly, assuming you're an employee) should take this as a lesson on becoming very familiar with your employment contract.

I just started a new job a month ago. If my train arrives on time, and if I briskly walk, I can take the later train.

But, the train often runs late.My line manager said it was okay occassinally, but I read the writing on the walk, and get up in time for the earlier train.

If your son gets into a situation like this again, he should ask for his adjustment of hours in writing, or just get the earlier train. I think you're unreasonable to think his dismissal was unfair.

Completely foreseeable they'd react badly to such an unreasonable request, and a bit odd you didn't tell him it was a very bad idea indeed to start a new job like this.

Well, we do live and learn. Hopefully he'll have a lot more common sense than you, moving forward.

It's not just disciplinary hearings, it includes meetings where your employment may be terminated i.e. probation meetings

This was my first thought. If I had an employee who had to be a few minutes late because of this I would be ok with it but would be expecting them to maybe have a 25 minute lunch break to make up for it.

He does - https://www.davidsonmorris.com/right-to-be-accompanied/
https://lighterhr.co.uk/right-accompanied-apply/

The nature of his current workload, tight deadlines and the fact he had to miss some work last week as he had a medical thing to check out.

He got what he needed to done and eased up things for the rest of the week.