Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

They shouldn't have told him they were ok with him getting the later train and being a few minutes late every day if wasn't true.
Was this a communication error? they thought it would be the odd occasion , he thought every day? Or maybe they thought they would be ok with it but changed their mind? Or the person who said its fine didnt have the authority to say that?
They shouldn't have told it was ok when it wasn't. Thats really wring and annoying..
Ideally he should have just got the earlier train from the start but totally get why he didnt if they told him it was fine.
Taking holiday within the first month is ok if its a prebooked long standing arrangement and he mentioned it as soon as he was offered the job. We've frequently accommodated this at our workplace.
It's frustrating but he has no legal protection as its such early days into employment.
If they made him come in to be dismissed hopefully they will pay today's wagess as he arrived to work.

I don't know why you're assuming it was due to him being a couple of minutes late. It's almost certainly because he was failing in multiple other ways. Maybe too slow, too immature, not a self starter, there are so many ways to fail during a probationary period.

I don't understand that as a mother you should have pointed this out to him from the start. Being late is not OK. I had work ethic instilled in me from 14. I would certainly have made him get the earlier train. Lateness cannot be tolerated. Maybe they were testing him to see if he had the common sense to right this blatant tardiness.

OP I dont think youre doing your son any favours here. He was getting in late, and while 2nd chances are nice its easier to get rid of someone in their probation and for cause and late is a cause.

It isnt fair to critique your parenting because hes an adult and decided to get the train that gets him in at 1 - 5mins late. If theres an earlier train he should have thought to get that himself. Its his fault. Not yours. Not his employers.

But you are being rude to people lacking sympathy and judging you when you wrote this up on AIBU?

Its unreasonable to see your son be unreliable and entitled. Because it is entitled to think whats 5 mins a shift (25 mins a week 46 working week a year is approx 19hours a year) and his choices had a consequence. Dont make this worse telling him its not his fault, it was. Probation is the easiest opportunity to get rid of an employee not meeting standards and in my experience the best most employees ever behave is probation and hes starting late in his

I get the bus to work as the cost of petrol and parking would work out over double what I pay for the months ticket. It’s 45 mins sometimes an hour depending on traffic (it’s a 10 minute car journey). I have to leave 1 hour 20 minutes early to get there in time for my shift. After 7pm the buses run every hour. I had a conversation with my boss before starting, asking whether it would be ok to start 15 minutes earlier, so I could leave 15 minutes early in the evening. I still fulfil my hours this way. Surely, he could’ve had some sort of conversation and had the forethought to see that an earlier train would make more sense than a late one. What happens if the train he takes is delayed, or cancelled? Then he’s considerably late not just a couple of minutes.

He needed telling, like a child, to get an earlier train and your asking why is was fired?

If there was an earlier train to begin with why didn't he get that? If I was looking at a job and public transport was required I would plan to be there early to allow for any delays that may occur on the way. I would also want to be ready to start at my start time, if he's arriving late he then has to get set up and then even later actually starting doing his work, so say he starts at 9 he then arrives at 10 past he's probably not fully set up till like 20 past and thats basically 20 mins late at this point(How late was he arriving) You guys are the ones being unreasonable for thinking it is ok to consistentley be late which is unrelaible and unreasonable!

TBF though at my DS's office job the rule is if you're late you make up the time. DS stays till sometimes 6pm.

Didn’t his employer say that they would be okay with him being late meaning if the earlier train was running late not that he could get the later train and arrive consistently late....not a good look for a new employee demonstrating lack of commitment at not getting up early enough to get to work on time and let’s face it, laziness, apparently accepted by his DM.

It's not like he's been getting the first train of the day and there is no earlier train! If that was the case then maybe he should have asked if working hours could be adjusted or if not that maybe this wasn't the right job for him

They should have spoken to him before I guess but he should also have known he needed to get an earlier train to be there on time.

It is normal to arrive at work 10-15 minutes early so you can take your coat off, make a cup of tea, say hi to people etc and be sat at your desk ready to start for the hours they're paying you for.

As an employer, I would not tell staff - especially teenagers who are fairly new to the world of work, especially during probation - that it is OK to be late every day. I struggle to imagine that anyone would. You may be able to flex rules when you have been there a while and are valued but not the first few months.

It is annoying when staff are late and you don't know if they will actually be in, it would make you feel that they were unreliable. I wonder if the lateness then bled over to things like being late back from lunch.

The holiday thing I am sure is a red herring.

As a mother if my child told me their employer said it was OK to be late everyday I would be telling them in no uncertain terms that this is not how you make a good impression, that s/he was on probation and had to be working hard and showing willing.

Gotta say I feel for the lad because if the way the mum has kicked off on here is anything to go by she will be making his life hell.

I can’t believe he wouldn’t have just gotten the earlier train to get to work there on time, definitely a good lesson learned.

There's another thread where a 22 year old DS has managed to secure himself a £40k job after impressing at interview and having a years work in industry. Perhaps OP's DS can learn from that DS on work ethnic

You being 'absolutely furious' isn't going to help. A discussion about importance of time keeping at work would b better use of your energy. Don't send out the wrong message here by by angry against the employer.

Bear with me here… I think people are goading you because you are being unreasonable, he was repeatedly late for a job when he could have always got an earlier train to get there on time. Your attitude towards this is enabling you sound like “my perfect child can’t do anything wrong” and you’re snapping back at people, which is making you come of as unhinged. I am not calling you unhinged btw I am saying you’re appearing to be, I can understand why you’re reacting like this though.

@OneGreyBiscuit isn’t coming back because we’ve made her realise her son is lazy and this is his fault, via poor parenting.

The person who said they were okay with him being a few minutes late obviously meant on this occasion, not every day. It’s a bit daft of him to take it to mean every day.

In my office, if someone says they used a little of my oat milk and I shrug it off with “it’s okay, I don’t mind, don’t worry about it” that does not mean I’m okay with them taking my oat milk every day. No grown adult should need explicit instructions of “but don’t do it again.” Neither should they need to be told to turn up to work on time within a month of starting.

It’s so so obvious he should have been getting the earlier train it begs the question was he a bit dim about other things while at work? It’s a horrible thing to have happen but you are not going to help him by making out he’s been hard done by. People are more relaxed about time keeping but not everyday relaxed. He probably should have moved his start date until after his holiday too. A few lessons learnt I hope.

I am wondering if there was a misunderstanding. He was told it was OK to be late because of the train. But person telling him meant it was OK from time to time, not that it was fine to do it every day.

I am still not clear why he didn't choose to get there earlier from the start, is there like one train an hour so earlier so he would have been hanging around for ages before he could start work? It's not clear.

Also, in most office roles these days you have core hours, when you can start and when you can leave, it's only when you are customer facing that precise timing is an issue. Would it have been possible to start earlier, cover the core hours and leave without doing more than he was paid for?

I am wondering if starting late is a red herring. There were other reliability issues, possibly related to the part of his nature that meant he misunderstood the thing about it being OK to be late

I can tell you for a fact my colleague thinks it’s fine to be 2-5 mins late every day they are in the office, even though they’ve been told it’s not ok. They think it should be fine, so that’s what they act upon!

It’s hard to believe someone told him this is fine. I can believe they likely said ‘that’s ok’ as a polite (surely he will pull it together) reaction, the first time and then they watched in surprise as he kept arriving late. During probation I’m not surprised they didn’t provide a warning. They can get rid of you for any reason during this period.
If you start at 9 and are walking through the door at 9, you are late. You need to be ready to start your work at your start time, not sauntering in to faff about for a few minutes more.

He should have gotten the earlier train from his first day. Especially since he was new and really needed to prove himself. The company gave him the job ,its up to him to get there on time. They shouldn't have to make adjustments for him. It's unfair on other coworkers. Hopefully it's a steep learning curve for when he secures another job.

DS was clearly given enough rope to hang himself as no employer is going to tell someone exactly what they think of them during a probationary period. No employer is also going to tell an employee what they are doing wrongly during a probation - certainly when it comes to being punctual. That's the point of a probation: to observe how a new employee behaves and decide whether they are suitable for the role. So,...without any interference from his employers, DS showed them what kind of employee he was going to be. He repeatedly arrived late and prioritised his own convenience by not choosing to take an earlier train. It's as simple as that. Not only that though, he went on holiday. Is he mad? Or are you going to defend him (and yourself) by saying that his employer said that that was okay, too??

Most employers are not asking for anything extraordinary. Only to turn up on time, look presentable and do a good day’s work. It's not that hard. We are not being nasty. We are just absolutely astounded that you can't see any wrong in what he did and can't see what we are trying to tell you. If you can't see it then of course you have passed down those values to DS which has led to this.

Hint: the employer kept saying it was fine to turn up late because they knew they wouldn't keep him at the end of the probation. That's how it works.

I disagree. Recruiting people is time consuming and you don't want to do it twice. I think that particularly for a teenager you need to be inducting them properly so they know what is and isn't ok. If someone needs feedback or guidance over punctuality or anything else it should be given. If they then continue to be late then byebye. I wonder if that is actually what has happened here.

I'd want to know exactly how that conversation went.

The employer is being a bit shitty if we take the details at face value, but if there's any doubt over how OK they were with the lateness that changes things.

No this is not ok at all - needs to be time to support and adapt to a new role. It’s certainly unethical, might be worth exploring the reasons for the dismissal and how this was communicated fully with your son. Either way the employer sounds awful so maybe be at his age it’s ok.