Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

I think if OP actually thinks about it she’ll realise that this was likely what got him sacked. The employer had to email him to tell him to get the earlier train - clearly indicating that he wasn’t making enough effort to get in on time. It does make me wonder if the lack of initiative was evident in other areas of his work and maybe this was just the last straw.

Im sure hus colleagues were thrilled that he was late everyday. As a manager in a previous life I had someone ask if they could could leave half an hour earlier to catch an earlier train home rather than have to wait an hour for thd next one. My reply " you accepted thd job knowing the start and finish time so no Im afraid you cannot leave early". They didn't ladt long as we're also "unreliable". I'd rather br an hour early than t minutes late 🤔

I would advise your son to go to his employer with a proposal for improving the situation. Show them
that he does really want the job and outline the ways he can make changes going forward. He should have been getting the earlier train, but if he had the holiday booked prior to employment then that should have been honoured.

The reality is they may be using it as a way to get rid of him to cut costs and therefore whatever he does will not make a difference or they may have been underwhelmed with his performance but might give another shot.

That’s why I asked if DS was customer facing. As in my job it would have zero impact. So it’s perfectly workable. I don’t know if the employer is justified due to the nature of the work or being unnecessarily inflexible.

He's 19 and has shown himself capable of getting a job, surely he didn't need his employer to tell him to get an earlier train in order to not be late to work every day..he's been unreliable despite being able to catch an earlier train that will get him into work on time, surely he knows being early would have been better than being late

A 40 minute train journey to work is nothing. That’s actually a short commute! My commute is double that, and I still manage to get to work on time.
Can’t believe you’re fuming about this….!

The employer is perfectly justified in requiring their employees to start work on time.
I can’t believe that’s even up for discussion 😆

It is set to reduce to under 6 months next year btw....but that still wouldn't help people in DS situation as he has less service than this.

It is unusual for new starters to be granted extended holidays during probation btw, the OP said he 'informed' his employer but not that he requested & was granted this according to the usual process.

Due to the amount of time & money involved in recruitment & onboarding an employer would usually only dismiss during probation if it is clear things are not working out. BTW there is often a structured induction and training process within strict timescales to get new starters up to speed; if someone turns up repeatedly late for this it inconveniences everyone else involved.

We sack people for being late. There is a reason its called a 'start time'.
Its bad enough that your son didn't have the initiative from the word go to get on a train so that he could actually get to work on time. But its even worse that you as his parent couldn't offer him this advice from the outset and now thinks that hes been badly done to.
Hopefully you can both learn a lesson from this!

I suspect the "they were fine with me getting the later train" was more along the lines of:
He turns up late on first day. Manager asks why he's late. "I was on the train."
Manager assumes that no one would be so silly as to turn up on the first day planning to be late and says something along the lines of "oh don't worry. Things happen."
Meaning to be reassuring to a new member of staff, that train being late once in a while happens.

But the Op's son takes this to mean it doesn't matter about getting in on time, so continues getting this train. After however long of being late, manager probes and finds he's getting in late because he's choosing to do (out of interest, was he making the time up by staying late?)

Yeah my thoughts exactly ! You can’t be late every day and tbink that’s ok. Why wasn’t he getting an earlier train in the first place.

Well whilst I agree with you, considering his mum was furious I think hearing it from a neutral authoritative voice might help them both.

What is wrong with you? I said in an earlier post everyone apart from you and your precious boy seem to understand the rules. When you get a new job you get there early presentable and full of enthusiasm. If he won't there are hundred that will. If you feel that he has been treated so unfairly why dont you phone them and give them a good talking too? You must realise you are being completely ridiculous and over the top. Its a life lesson but really both of you seem to live in a little entitled bubble. I have owned a business and I wouldnt be I.pressed by your baby boy not working out that he needed to get up earlier to arrive on time.

Surely they have given him a contractual start time, that is clear indication when they expect him to be there. Did they expressly confirm it was fine or where they just giving a little leeway to settle in & see if it improved & he has assumed? The “everyone at my place does it” isn’t really relevant.

And that maybe unnecessarily inflexible if there is no operational impact. Hence why I asked.

It’s become very expensive and risky to recruit people with the new changes in legislation. If there were any red flags, as an employer, previously I’d have given a warning. But with the changes to employee rights, regular lateness would be a red flag and too much risk for our company to carry.

We’ve certainly had to become far more ruthless recently whereas previously we would have been more likely to give a second chance. This may well be the same situation for your son. Also bear in mind that what his manager says is okay, may be different from the perspective of the people reviewing timesheets.

Hopefully, this experience will stand him in good stead for the future.

They didn't tell him it was okay to be a few minutes late every day. He's telling you lies, and you're daft enough to believe him. What firm's okay with a new start wandering in late every morning? Think about it, for Heaven's sake...

If the train was reliable enough to make him between 1 and 5 minutes late everytime it was obviously a very reliable unreliable train. Don't know why OP doesnt understand that her baby boy should have turned up for work on time every day especially in his probation period. Why have a childish tantrum because the majority of posters think YABU.

I’m sorry he has lost his job but I think there is more going on here than you have been told.

The job vacancy then at the interview, it was obviously put to him that the hours were 8 am to 16.30, except for you, Junior, you can saunter in when you like... 😆

They definitely can dismiss him like this, unless there is any kind of discrimination that you believe has taken place, it sounds not but if he has a disability that might impact this, or if you believe it is race or sexuality related then this can be followed up.
To be honest, this is probably a hard learnt lesson that you pick an earlier train and be on time or early. You don't really even ask to come in late every day and take their "if you must" answer. Especially at 19 and presumably early on in his career. Instead you try really hard to go above and beyond and impress. It's a hideous job market for that age group right now, and I'd be teaching him how you impress (e.g if you arrive 5 mins late, you're actually ten mins late because I'd expect staff to be settled at their desk, logged on and working hard by start time). Most in finance will work late, in my first graduate job I was doing 8am to 6pm even though hours were 9 till 5.30. In a way it's awful that it's like that, because it isn't clear but contracted hours and start times are minimums not boundaries you can push! I would talk through "OK, so next job, how will you approach it what can we learn" and get him to think about it. During probation they will want to see commitment, enthusiasm, pro activity, quick learning and working well as a team member. I doubt the holiday is the issue, it'll be the attitude of "my train makes me a bit late, is that ok" which is a question I'd generally not be impressed by.

I'm actually speechless, and I've hired hundreds of people. The contract says when you start work, and you're there on the dot, or earlier - especially in your first job.

DS has been taking the piss and has been called out.

People like this suck the life out of the entire workforce: "Who does he think he is? What makes him so special?"

Maybe he will do better next time.

I think the issue is he had to be told to get the earlier train.

He should have taken the train that got him to work on time under his own reconnaissance.

Id have likely sacked him too

What do we expect for their DS in later life