Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

He's been there a month and is consistently late. ACAS will not be interested

You think an employer expecting an employee to arrive on time is evidence of a poor work culture ? Do you not think that your own employer tolerating persistent lateness is perhaps more indicative of a poor working culture. If you have a standing arrangement whereby you make up the time then fine, but there’s no evidence that this was the case for DS. An employee being consistently late with no consequences makes for a toxic workplace, not least because of resentment from other employees who are on time.

@OneGreyBiscuit "He told me that they were ok with him being a few minutes late as they were fully aware he gets the train, if they had a problem, they should've told him the first week and not say it was ok."

This could've been just what your son was telling you. Or maybe his employer didn't realise he meant every single day - forever. You say that "minor" lateness isn't an issue where you work, but that's totally irrelevant. Every employer is different and most employers are inclined to be more forgiving to long standing employees with difficult personal circumstances. Not 19 year olds that have just started. Your son should've had the initiative to get an earlier train and set a good example as a new employee. There's no justifiable argument around that. He's learnt a valuable lesson.

All I'm taking from this is that he should have got the earlier train from the start! Hard luck.

Why, I had the same setup and they had zero issues. It depends on type of work obviously, in my case I would be there 1h30m before anyone was in the building to get there earlier. And it was office work, I just spent the 5-10 minutes I was late at the end of the day finishing up if needed. Sometimes sat while eating instead. Calling that me actually being late is just stupid at that point, I was more reliable than some managers at that job in spite of being technically late every single day.

There is no reason it couldn't happen. But will be contextual for how likely they would be happy to allow it.

He isn’t as dim as the many many PPs who seem to have failed to read that the employer was ok with him being a few minutes late.

YANBU OP, but there probably isn’t very much he can do bout it.

I know you said you weren’t returning to the thread OP but for future reference, this may help:

As a general rule, if it’s not documented in writing, it’s not a given and cannot be proved eg
a) permission to start later than the Contracted start time
b) the contracted start time

Allowing your son to minimise (eg he was 1-5 minutes late) is not going to be productive in the long term in any way in any part of his life, private or work

Every workplace has a different set of boundaries, guidelines and company
policies, so what you experience is not necessarily what someone else will

There are tens of thousands of people that needed his role. Let this be a lesson to you both.

When you say “he informed them of” holiday, do you mean he got permission?

I wouldn’t mind an employee being five minutes late in a non customer facing role, as long as they don’t leave bang on time each day. Give and take. It would also depend on the frequency of the trains.

A new young starter. Maybe the first week whilst he’s finding his feet with train journeys then they’d let it slide but still reiterate that punctuality is important. After this, and before, they’ll be watching him like a hawk to ensure he’s in on time and noting when he’s late.

Just about to post this.

I think if he’s been there less than 3 months they can terminate with no real reason

Grown adults shouldn't need to be instructed to take a train that gets them to work on time by their employer. It's blindingly obvious that's what you should do.

It shows zero initiative, reliability, common sense or independent thought. The fact that he'd just be late every single day and think it acceptable?

Ridiculous. To the point I can barely believe this is real.

And you failed to have read that the employer fired him for being late - so clearly not ok with it. Ironic calling other people dim for that

I’ve been looking for someone else who thinks this. Sometimes it’s hard for parents to admit their child is the problem and doesn’t help themselves. It’s probably more than being a few minutes late, I’d overlook that for a good member of staff.

I think he told them he might be slightly late occasionally due to train timetables but ended up being late every day. No real reason for his tardiness either since earlier trains existed.

Why did they sack him then?

I'm sorry that the laughing emoji upset you. The thing is, whilst no it's not funny he lost his job, I just can't believe someone would go to work in their first week so unenthused about their job that they thought it wouldn't matter to be late every day. Then when pulled up on it, his response wass "OK I'll just get the earlier train then". That just shows he didn't really have a strong basis for getting the train he did - he should have doubled down on how difficult it was to get the earlier train rather than accepting it.

The other thing that shows his lack of enthusiasm is the lack of checking it's OK - I'm guessing what's happened is (as an example) he's asked Bob the deputy if it's OK if he's late, Bob has said yeah whatever - the other employees (expecting the newbie to be full of enthusiasm and vigour) have likely thought it's not on and reported the situation, or Brian the head of department came in and thought it was silly and he's got the sack. He should have sought confirmation from the right person in writing to cover his back.

In all honesty, if it was a job he really, really wanted he should have shown the right attitude. If it was a job he didn't want, he's certainly showing it and I don't know why you're angry at the employer. I hate to say it but you sound entitled and it's probably rubbed off on your son. Lesson learned, turn up with enthusiasm and in a timely fashion at the next job - whether it's McDonald's or a bank!

The employer has literally sacked him for being late every day, so clearly he wasn’t bright enough to realise they were not ok with him being late every day

I'm sorry about your son's employer. Most of them are dickheads and most adults know that really.

Tell him to avoid working for private companies if he can and to swerve family owned places completely. They tend to be extremely hard of thinking when it comes to these matters.

Flexi with core hours would probably suit him better. Civil service and local authorities work like that. He could get there any time between around 7 and 11 as long as he stays to complete his 7.5 hours.

Ignore the nasty comments OP. Folks on mumsnet get really really weird about jobs and work in general.

Welcome to the world of work, sweetie.

No-one here is dim, how rude. And no-one has ‘failed to read’ that the employer was OK with it. The issue is what they were actually OK with. The fact that he’s been late every single day and has now been sacked is a very clear indication that they weren’t OK with it at all, and that there has either been some sort of miscommunication or DS hasn’t been truthful.

My own interpretation is that they thought his lateness was a one off due to train delays and it’s become clearer over time that the train he chose to take was never going to get him to work on time. He proved today that he can get to work on time but in order to do so, he had to be told to get an earlier train. That shows lack of initiative and l’d bet the farm that that’s also a problem in other areas of his work and that’s why he was sacked. Things aren’t always as they seem.

Common sense seems lacking, earlier train would’ve been the answer.

However, I don’t think your Son is giving you the full story.

There may have been some miscommunication
Did they actually tell him it's OK or did someone rised an eyebrow and went "hmmmmm, ok" sarcastically.
It may also have been thyey were taken aback by him anouncing he would be late they sort of were speechless. I had a trainee who was coming late frequently a few years ago and found it pretty hard to convey it's not OK- it's on me, but Im not confrontational and was too nice about it, until a review came and it was in b&w left there. It gave me an experience of managing stuff like that, but maybe the person in your son;s work didnt have it. Also new starters cant often do the same thing as people who have been there for years, so that's also not an excuse.
At any rate, one month in, being late and already taking a holiday, obviously he did because it wa spreplaned etc, but it does not look the best, annoying as it is. Hope he finds something else soon.

I think there are some questions which need answering.
Who told him it was okay to be a little late? Did they definitely mean that it was okay to be consistently late or did they perhaps mean "don't worry about it today", or perhaps an intermediate "we're not going to worry if it happens from time to time".
If they definitely indicated that they were happy for him to start a little later on a regular basis, did he get this in writing? Was there any payback such as having a slightly shorter lunch break or finishing slightly later.

(Lesson for future: always get permissions like this put in writing.)

☝️Case in point.

They don't know who they are unless they're licking someone's boots somewhere.

Idiots.