Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

How infrequent are the trains ?
And who was the person telling him being late was okay ?
A colleague or his line manager ?

OP, I can feel your outrage and protective motherly instinct kicking in. Initially I assumed that there was only one train running hence them being okay with his lateness, but it doesn't make sense that your son didn't just get the earlier train to begin with. His (now ex) employer had to tell him to do it. Surely you can see the issue with that?

This lesson will shape him, not break him. Think of it as a gift. He will be a better employee in the future.

I think people have been a not harsh. I commute and there is a train that would get me in bang on time. Knowing the trains as I do, it would basically involve being a few mins late every day and my experience tells me that another colleague will moan and it'll look bad on me, so i just get an earlier train and arrive early. I accepted the job and the start time, it is what it is.

Your ds is is young and a bit naive. I expect they agreed thinking that was the only option but likely someone else lives in a similar situation is getting in early and has had a moan. Perhaps there were other factors at play and they are just using time keeping as an excuse. In short they can do it, my advice to DS when you are new and unproven in a role you have to do the hard yards and get the earlier train. Msybe once he had passed probation and was adding value THEN he could have asked for the flexibility, but its rarely a good idea to start out this way. He is young just chalk it up as a lesson learnt for next time. All those being unnecessarily harsh and name calling I guess you arrived perfect in your first job and didn't learn any though lessons along the way?! 🙄

He was late everyday! In what world is this acceptable? It doesn't matter where he lives; if he's taken on a job, he needs to be on time. If the job is too far, and he can't handle jumping on an earlier train, he needs to find a job closer to home.

This sense of entitlement that you are teaching your son to have is not doing him any favours. Frankly, I'm shocked that you're furious at the employer. You should be furious at your son for his poor time-keeping.

What's wrong with people these days? Basic stuff.

He was late for work every single day and only managed to get to work on time after the employer emailed him and told him to get the earlier train. And you think the employer is the dickhead ??!!

And I’ve worked in the Public sector. Even with flexible working, start and finish times are according to operational needs, not individual preference - in most places I’ve worked, core hours are from 9-9.30am - arrive after that time and you’re late unless it’s pre-arranged. DS doesn’t need flexible working, he needs to learn to get his arse out of bed to get to work on time and develop some discipline, otherwise he’s going to find working life very difficult.

What time did he leave the house @OneGreyBiscuit ?

I think YANBU because the employer shouldn't have told him it was fine if it wasn't.

I don't know what sort of job he had. Some can't offer much flexibility re. working hours but many can, and some employers are much more flexible about hours than they used to be. I work flexitime and don't even have core hours anymore. Even before my employers brought in flexitime, one of my colleagues left eight minutes early every day so she could catch the 16:55 bus home, and no one minded!

It’s a great life lesson for him, be on time because people don’t stay employed with regular tardiness issues.

I agree. It sounds like there's been a bit of a communication misunderstanding. He thought he was telling them the train would make him late every day, they thought he meant occasionally.

It's tough on your DS but unfortunately he doesn't really have any comeback. I would view it as a lesson learned.

Reading between the lines here, I would suspect that they've either decided they don't need the post any more or have someone else they want to offer it to. It costs money to advertise/interview/train someone so he may have been on shaky ground anyway. Most good employers will give someone a chance to improve after a warning so I think he's probably dodged a bullet.

Onwards and upwards.

Good point. Being late every day is not normally ok, a different start time should have been agreed, so it's unlikely they really said it was okay . Perhaps management should have been clearer but DS shouldn't have expected his behaviour to be well received. Hopefully he will learn from it and find another job soon.

Your son may well be spinning you a yarn, OP. Of course the employers didn't tell him that it was OK to turn up late! And I'm surprised you didn't encourage him to get an earlier train, anyway. In fact, most of us would aim to be at work 10 to 15 minutes early, surely?
Treat this as a learning experience for your son, and hopefully his timekeeping will be better in future.

I understand that you’re upset OP, we want the best for our kids of course, but you can’t be late every single day and not expect something like this to happen. They may have been OK with him being late on the odd occasion but it sounds like he’s taken it literally and just carried on being late. Really that should have happened only once and he should have started to get an earlier train. Trains are unpredictable at the best of times and I speak as somebody who commuted from the Home Counties into London for 27 years. I was late on a very odd occasion and that was always due to transport failure. I don’t think there is any way he can come back from this other than maybe appeal to them and promise to get the earlier train. Otherwise he needs to find a job that is closer to home and make sure he’s on time. Maybe he’ll find something better suited? I wish him luck.

The post wasn’t at all nasty. Come on. Have a thicker skin. The post was just pointing out the logical reasoning.
I would have had the same logical thought as the poster. Just get the earlier train every day to make sure you aren’t late. Jeez - it’s not rocket science

If in probation, can terminate for many reasons including this

Yes, this. It would have been respectful to reach an agreement in advance if he was unwilling to take an earlier train.

This. He should have been taking the earlier train from day 1. I'd be more concerned that he didn't have the common sense to realise this.

Sorry, what ??!!

I suspect they didn’t realise when they said being a bit late was ok that he was deliberately getting a late train as opposed to a train being late one or two occasions / there is a world of difference

live and learn

He may also find that he “owes” them holiday as he has not been there long enough to accrue as much leave as he has taken.

First post mailed it! OP, you aren’t doing him any favours by support this - sounds like he needed a reality check

It feels as though many of these responses are from the early 2000s. Times have changed, especially due to Covid and advances in WPN technology. Flexible working requests, hot-desking and hybrid working are all commonplace now in some sectors and it isn't unreasonable to talk to your employer about them.

Of course, if OP's son has client appointments, or works for a very small business in which only one or two employees are on duty at once, then this doesn't apply.

Your post doesn’t really apply to this situation, he didn’t request flexible working formally and his employer wasn’t ok with him being late every day. Many employers aren’t ok with it actually

Plenty of private companies work on that basis and with those that dont they tend to be very give and take once you've proved youre not a piss taker.

A 19 year old is very unlikely to be able to walk into a civil service flexi time job.

Yes I think the employer is the dickhead. They asked him to get the earlier train so he could travel in to be fired. But you're ignoring that.

I don't share your experience of the public sector but there was the odd one like you, actually using the phrase 'operational needs' 😂. They never had many friends and were usually miserable at home.

In any case a 9.30am start worked really well for the folks who would have had to arrive at 8.15am for a (pointless) 9.00am start. Very few started after that but when they needed to they weren't "late".

I suspect YABU. If his train made was unreliable, he should have shown willing and caught an earlier train.
I would only say YANBU if he has something in writing to say that they were happy for him to be a few minutes late if he made the time up, or similar.