Furious at ds work dismissal

[OneGreyBiscuit]

This is more has my 19 year old ds employers been unreasonable. He's just been sacked for being unreliable. For context - he accepted a new job about a month ago. He informed them of where he lives which is about a forty minute train journey away. He is a few minutes late everyday because of the trains and they said they were ok with it. He's just come off holiday (which he informed them of) and went back today. He was sent an email before today telling him to get an earlier train so he's on time. Fair enough, so he did and would've continued doing. At 9 he was called into a meeting to tell him his contracts been terminated for unreliability. He was only informed of getting an earlier train from today, so how can they dismiss him like this? If he continued to get the later train and continued being late then I'd understand but they've not even given him a chance. I'm absolutely furious. And to add insult to injury he still had to pay for his waste of time and money train fare this morning.

At 19, he really should have realised that he needed to get the earlier train himself.

You should be furious with your son, not his ex-employer.

it’s usual at interview to ask about any existing holiday commitments so that they can be honoured if possible, so that may explain why he ‘informed’ them rather than requesting the holiday time.

Not really, it's clear that the son was told being a few minutes late was OK. It's the experience of some of the other people on the thread and it's my experience too - at my last job I was regularly a bit late because of public transport. I was told not to worry, everyone was in the same position and a few minutes here or there didn't matter. I offered to get a (much) earlier train and was told not to be daft.

This is the attitude I'd take with my own direct reports now, too.

It IS unfair if he was told it was OK to be a bit later, and then he's not only told it's not OK but sacked for it before being given chance to improve. Sounds like it's maybe not the nicest place to work so, hard as this is, perhaps he's dodged a bullet.

He's not told you the whole story.

I think you should be angry at your ds not the ex employer!

We're venomous are we? You're delightful.

I suspect they were okay with one or two latenesses. The consistency and holiday led to him being labelled unreliable. It is likely he was spotted by a more senior manager and they got involved. I can come and go as I please, I have flexi and I earned the right. A new starter cannot. I’d also argue the fact he could have gotten an earlier train but chose not to goes against him. ACAS won’t help as he is on probation. They could say it is to do with his tie and it doesn’t matter, he’s gone. Tough but fair lesson.

It is the employees responsibility to get to their place of work, whatever means they do this. The usual war cry of speaking to ACAS will give the same response.

Given that he’s been sacked specifically for being late every day it’s clear the son was not told being a few minutes late every single day was ok.

The OP would be far better putting energy into getting down to fine detail with her son about the “ok” conversation to work out how he misinterpreted it to the point he got sacked and teaching him what to do going forward if he encounters a similar situation.

Instead of being angry with the employer, be angry with your son. Tell him this is a life lesson and to act like the man he now is. He needs to treat work like work, not school and I sincerely doubt he was 'only' 5 or less minutes late. As others have said, he should aim to be there early, not late. You are not doing him any favours by misdirecting your anger.

Surely he would have worked it out for himself that if he was late every day he needed to get the earlier train or you as a parent might have suggested it to him - a verbal “it’s ok to be late” won’t stand up. I am assuming he has been there less than 2 years so unlikely ACAS can do anything and unless his contract says it’s ok to be late everyday not really a leg to stand on.

You don’t need to assume, tells you early on in the OP he’s been there a month

He had the ability to get an earlier train, as proved the day he was dismissed, so why on earth was he getting a later one every day? Of course they wouldn’t be happy with this!

Does that mean they told him they were ok with him being a few minutes late on the first day, but the implication was not to be late on subsequent days?
Or that they are ok with him being late every day?

Honestly if he thinks being late every day is OK and doesnt think it really matters then no wonder he has been asked to leave. Why does his employer have to tell him to get an earlier train.

They wont have time to micromanage him like this. Then he goes on holiday. Cannot you not see this is not a good look. Hopefully he has learnt from this. Does he know where he went wrong?

I am baffled by the lack of common sense not to get the earlier train. Getting a train that already gets in a few minutes after he is supposed to start leaves zero room for delays.

If you are given a start time, you need to be there for it

Sounds like a poor working culture. I commute and I have been a few.minutes late literally every day for 2 years. If he worked for me, I wouldn't have even noticed. Unfortunately, under employment law he has no recourse during probation (unless for discrimination). Hope he finds a better job.

Unfortunately, there is probably nothing that can be done now. However, I can only imagine that you have not been told the full story about them being ok with him being late every day. My work are ok with me being a bit late sometimes due to traffic - but I've been there 26 years and work flexi so make the time up. If he is in some sort of role that means the person he is taking over from can't leave until he starts I can see them getting annoyed about it.
But if there was an earlier train why on earth did he not just get that!
I hope he takes this as a learning experience and does well in his future.

Exactly, it depends on the job. And there are many jobs that are very strict indeed about employees clocking in on time at the start of a shift and not clocking out early at the end of a shift.

Where my DH works, if anybody is persistently late in clocking in then that starts a formal performance management process.

At my previous employer, this wouldn’t have been an issue at all. Unless you started a few minutes late AND left on time/early.

at my current employer lateness isn’t tolerated at all, except in extreme circumstances.

in any case, arriving early, being keen and showing willing is always the best way to make a good impression in a new job.

My 20yo has a summer job. The train that he wanted to take gets in with just enough time for him to get to the workplace for 9am, if it’s on time. We decided on day 1 that you absolutely do not risk being late. Every day last month, he got up earlier than he wanted to take the train that leaves 40 mins earlier and most days, he has been 45 mins early to the job. I’m not sure why you/your ds did not think the same way. If the train is unreliable or too close to the start time, you take the earlier one and don’t risk pissing off a new employer. Why did he have to be told to take an earlier train? Is it not obvious?

Added to which, after the email telling him to get an earlier train, he did just that and proved it was possible for him to get in on time, and thus entirely reasonable for the employer to expect him to be punctual. Which highlighted that he’d been taking the piss, and resulted in him being sacked. Simples.

Why did he need telling to get an earlier train?

Did he get in writing that they didn’t mind him being a bit late every day?

I cannot stand lateness or the excuse of living far away from the workplace (that’s a standard journey here, I couldn’t be late every day).

It’s horrible and badly handled, but unfortunately they can dismiss someone very easily during probation. They don’t need a process or warnings.

In fairness, just because he told them he would be a few minutes late doesn't mean its acceptable. It would have made more sense to get the earlier train for his probationary period and then once he has proved his worth, then ask in writing for some flexibility. As a manager that is what I would expect to see from someone truly interested in the job and if this caused issues with other colleagues or there were other issues with him, it would probably have sealed the deal for me but they didn't handle it well.

The way they did it, telling him only today to get an earlier train and then sacking him anyway - is unfair, but not unlawful.

He should still get paid for all hours worked and any holiday he’s accrued. Beyond that, there’s not much he can challenge

Well if that's an example of the family attitude, no wonder they got shot. Come on op. Your boys been stupid. He thought he could get away with being late. There's no way anyone agreed it could be every day, else they wouldn't have booted his arse into touch so soon...it costs a fair bit to recruit someone in advertising, time interviewing. He's pissed on his own chips I'm afraid....he knew it was 40 minutes from home when he applied and, what a surprise, they's actually a train he could get his arse on and arrive on time....

Please op smell the coffee. He's a grown man...I've had mates fighting wars at that age