AIBU to think cats should not roam unsupervised like dogs?

[estrogone]

AIBU to think that if you dont leave your dog to roam streets unsupervised, then you shouldn't let other pets (cats), for the same reasons.

It blows my mind that people let their cats out because their sleep is disrupted and I wonder why they think its OK, when its highly unlikely they would put Fido outside if he kept the family up.

Actually...
We used to take a previous generation of cats on holiday with us to a holiday cottage in the Malverns. We even let them outside there - they seemed to love it (lots of trees to climb) and the second time we went they clearly recognised the place.
Never underestimate a moggy 😹

And these pet friendly air b and bs have catios and cat proof gardens? Cos you have already said that is what cats should have access to, when responding to people who said cats should not be kept inside.

And your point is?

This. Foxes, badgers, stoats, birds of prey, all these are out there killing wildlife its the circle of life. Your average pet cat actually doesn't kill much because they are fed at home so not hunting to feed themselves. And actually much of what cats kill is small rodents that to be honest need to be kept in check in urban areas anyway?

I have a cat as do many people i know - its really rare for them to manage to catch birds - which is what people claim cats are out there doing, killing all the nice birds - in reality birds are pretty good at flying away. Rodents is the bulk of what they manage to catch.

Exactly. Cat owners seem to be in denial about this key point.

And if you'd bothered to read my post, I didn't say that they were, however much I believe they should be.

Wildlife also kills wildlife (or domesticated animals - hedgehogs can kill a whole brood of chicks fairly quickly).

Have you only ever had the one cat? Their personalities can differ wildly. Like people.

One of our cats has a similar temperament to your girl's and would be probably be happy to come away with us. The other of our cats would absolutely hate this and would scream, cry, throw up in the carrier after about ten minutes in the car.

I remember this in the 90s. People just let their dogs out on the council estates where I lived in the north east. Some of the neighbours dogs would play with us on the field which was nice. Not saying this was a good idea mind, like there was dog crap everywhere.

I agree OP. Personally I don’t think cats should be locked inside. I have an indoor cat.

But the same way nobody locks their dog inside they take them for walks- I believe care should be given to your cat to ensure they get enrichment. My cat is the same as yours. Has a catio, comes on holiday with us etc. I’m not sure why people think that the only options are having an outdoor cat or locking them inside without entertainment and having them bored all of the time?

I think we should exercise responsible pet ownership and that begins with not letting your cat outside where they have a much higher rate of dying but also playing with, spending time with and putting measures into place where your cat can access an outdoor area safely. We wouldn’t just lock a dog inside, we know it will make them crazy so we put them on a lead and take them for a walk. Why can’t we think of ways to safely let our cats experience the outdoors? I don’t know why these rules apply for all other pets but not cats.

If people are concerned about wildlife and cats then spread the message to flipping owners. If you have a friend with a intact cat, call them out on it.
Friend from CP is completely knackered trying to pick up the mess of people getting cats, not neutering them and letting them out, losing or abandoning them. This creates many more colonies and cats will then breed over and over. She, and other cat rescue spaces in a reasonable sized town have hundreds of cats & kittens on waiting lists to be helped, mostly down to not neutering. A female cat can get pregnant at 4 months old and can have 20-25 kittens per year. See the issue?

Responsible cat ownership in this country is going downhill rapidly. If people had cats at home, even allowed out and they were looked after, neutered then there would be far fewer cats in the UK. As usual, it is human activity behind the problems. Buy a cat from gumtree for £20, then do sod all cat care.

It's tricky. The nature of cats living with people has long been that they are on the periphery of our homes, coming and going as they please.

I dont want cats to be hurt but equally, its such an enriching part of their lives and unlike dogs, most cats just aren't happy to be walked on a lead. Its not their nature to go roaming and racing around like dogs, they like to sniff and scratch and climb trees, all hard to do on leads.

I think you should base what you do around where you live. We live in a quiet estate at the top of a hill and backing onto a tiny quiet cul de sac, beyond that is trees, fields and a play park, so there is not much traffic around us and the cats tend to go behind us where its very safe, instead of down into the estate where there are more streets.

Our cats are always so close nearby. They come to the park and for little walks with us, the older one comes on the school run with us most mornings. You can go outside and call then and they are very likely to come within seconds. We dont have a garden (though they do use the unused garden below us) so keeping them in seems cruel and our relationship with them is strengthened by them spending time with us outside. I love them and would be devastated if anything happened, but it seems wrong to not let them out

My cats are generally in at night and they don't keep us awake, they usually sleep on or near one of us!

They go where they like during the day, we live rurally and have fields behind our houses for them to roam around. They don't bother anybody or cause any trouble unlike the incessant yapping/barking from neighbourhood dogs and they don't leave big stinking heaps of shit all over the place either.

Eh? You said "as far as responsible ownership goes, they are exactly the same".

They are not. Even the law says they are not.

Bugger that! Seeing cats out and about make me smile even on my darkest days. They even poo in my garden. I don't mind though.

Because when my cat has been allowed to "safely experience the outdoors" he has been stressed, sick and unfulfilled. He needs to be out and he needs to roam and do normal "cat" things. When he can't do that, he gets so unwell he gets stress-related urinary blockages and needs to be medicated and regularly treated at the vets.

Cats are part of the impact humans have on wildlife.
Not the only part but definitely a part.
You pick up an animal, put it down in an environment where it doesn’t belong, and then artificially feed it to boost populations.
Introduced species are a massive problem world wide.

My cat got ran over and survived. It was an awful time and we vowed when it happened that we were never letting him outside again and we’re dead set on this being the case. We were going to hold firm against any feline protests and he would eventually relent and accept his new reality (oh how I laugh about that now).

This was fine when he was recovering as we could clearly see he wasn’t fit to go out despite his protests. He then recovered and his behaviour deteriorated further, he was physically well but not a happy cat at all, very unsettled. In the end we decided to start letting him out again, the difference was night and day straight away. We bought loads of enrichment items to try and get him to forget about outside and spent extra time playing with him but it wasn’t enough.

It was a huge worry letting him out again, but it was a joy to see him back his normal self again. Keeping him in started to feel cruel in the end, the benefits of letting him out have definitely outweighed the risks and we are now painfully aware of one of the risks and just hope that he knows to stay away from roads from now on.

Keeping cats indoors might work fine for those who have never been out, but ones who are used to it are most likely going to struggle. They are different to dogs with different instincts. They are both 4 legged mammals but that’s where their similarities begin and end. It’s like comparing a bearded dragon with a goldfish because they both have scales.

You are making wild assumptions about why and when people let their cats roam and the amount of care cat owners give them. Most cat owners call their cats in and keep them in at night. They are also not like dogs and although some breeds are more amenable to lead training or catios most are not.

We never had cats growing up as we were a dog family. When we decided to get two kittens I was adamant they would be indoor cats and we would lead train them.

My husband who came from a cat family humoured me. We lived in a town centre flat and picked them up the week that Covid became a thing so we had lots of free time to lead train them...we failed.

Once they got the taste of the outdoors that was it. They would howl to go out, try to escape via the windows. We couldn't just let them out as we couldn't get them neutered. But once we did they were perfectly happy outside. Have they got into situations an indoor cat wouldn't, of course. But, we make sure where ever we live limits the risks, no fast roads, industrial sites etc.

A few years ago one of them had a seizure and we decided he'd have to be an indoor cat. Despite us spending obscene amounts of money on enrichment he was so miserable he made himself unwell so we discussed with the vet and he goes out with a tracker that monitors where he is and his vitals.

We are now in a bungalow and for the first time have had to let them out at night as it was too hot to keep the windows closed. It was not the easy thing....after the 4th night in a row of multiple live mice being proudly "gifted" we decided to keep the window closed.

Do our cats sometimes kill small birds, yes. Hedgehogs, no. Squirrels, they get out smarted. My brothers dog will take out, birds, rabbits, squirrels, voles, hedgehogs and anything else when in the garden. He's persistent but not as efficient at killing as the cats which is arguably more traumatic for the animals.

Cats are also much better at pest control meaning no poison, traps or hawks to keep the numbers down.

Same. Our dog had friends he met up with. He used to come and see me at school.

My cat is allowed out 7-7 and still uses the litter tray (unfortunately). He only goes across a few gardens, mostly in the one where the neighbour is in a care home and it’s overgrown. We tried making him an indoor cat and he was utterly miserable.

This has been answered repeatedly. Our native wildlife belongs here.
Thry are part of our native ecosystem. Cats aren’t.
It is not relevant to the conversation to say ‘wildlife kills wildlife.’
Where hedgehogs have been introduced there are plans to remove them because of the damage they do.

Urinary blockages are life threatening and FWIW if your cat is prone to them I think it’s very irresponsible to let your cat out at all. What if he gets locked in a shed in someone’s garden? My cat is also prone to stress related urinary issues, requires medication and absolutely no way would I let our outside due to that reasoning.

Perhaps you should look at better ways to enrich your cat when he is safely experiencing the outdoors.

Cats are still basically wild animals. Barely domesticated really, it's cruel to keep them indoors. Their genetics say they need to roam. Plus the laws around cats and dogs differ 🤷
Sure some people institutionalise their cats keeping them in tiny flats their whole lives, doesn't mean those cats are happy. Animals need to be able to display their natural behaviour, that is one of the 5 rights enshrined in UK law for domestic pets.

Yes. I also think people shouldn’t keep pet fish in tanks and should let them sleep on the sofa like dogs. Pet gerbils should be taken for walks twice a day. Rabbits should be fed an exclusively meat diet. Why would we treat any pet differently to a dog - one rule for dogs should be one rule for all pets.

You're right - they are life-threatening and that's precisely why he goes out to roam - because he has never, ever had one in the three years he's been going outside. When he was inside, he had them at least 4-5 times a year and was catheterised multiple times as a result.

The risk of him being trapped in a shed and potentially getting stressed is tiny inn comparison to what I know happens to him when he is shut indoors. So no, I don't need to look at "better ways to enrich him" - he does that himself when he goes out, roams and behaves in the way he should.