AIBU to think low-paid mums are less likely to return?

[Daydreamxdelight]

Hello

I was discussing this with a friend today who said i was wrong.

Now, before anyone says... no I dont speak for the whole population and I am not saying this applies to every mother / parent who didnt return to work after maternity leave.

So after asking how my friends friend is (she gave birth 7 months) my friend started telling me that this woman isnt returning to work as she has worked out she could get xyz in benefits / support and it works out roughly as her current wage.

I said, fair enough, why would you return if that was the case. I then said based on my own experience of family, friends and mums I know from my maternity leave, it is those in low pay / low skilled jobs who dont return to work. This is mainly because, 1) benefits tend to work out near enough the same as their pay, and 2) they work in low skilled jobs so they can easily pick up any job they so wish when they return. Ie stacking shelves, admin.

My friend was most offended. But this has been my experience.

What do u think?

This was 16yrs ago. Universal credit is less generous and stricter than tax credits ever was.

We don't have any free childcare hours in Northern Ireland so for people in low paid jobs it wouldn't make sense to work. It's a really rubbish system. I know people who didn't go back to work until their kids were in school as it just wasn't affordable. I'm a teacher and grandparents helped with 2 days childcare a week so it made sense for me to go back (& I would go mad at home) but I understand why people genuinely can't afford too work.

But you rely on the government to pay your 30 hours - whay the difference if that money goes in benefits instead.

Lots of life isn’t fair, plenty of people don’t have the opportunity to go to university like yourself, and end up in low paying jobs.

There are other motivations behind not returning to work - one is that some women don’t want to leave their children in childcare for long hours. This is not a criticism of those who return to work at all but it is another potential factor in the decision. Obviously it requires that families can afford to drop to one wage or that they have other childcare options such as Grandparents around to help.
We didn’t want to put our 12 month old into nursery or with a childminder at such a young age. We didn’t have any family childcare available and I didn’t want to pay someone else to look after my baby while I was paid to work with other people’s children (I worked in a school). We were fortunate that my husband earns enough to enable me to stay at home for those early years. We purposely bought a smaller, cheaper house to enable us to manage the mortgage on one salary.

I think this is a great post. On this bit:

“First we need a signifcant proportion of people doing low-skilled (and pay at the bottom) of the ladder for the economy to function. Ironically these tend to be roles ill-suited to relacement by AI, technology and mechanisation. They're not glamourous jobs, but they are important and you'd certainly miss them if they weren't done.”

So so true. I actually don’t like much the term low skilled, as to me, it is often those jobs that many of us wouldn’t be able to do. I also have a quiet hope that those jobs that aren’t easily be replaced or done significantly by AI will command higher societal value and pay. The next couple of decades will be interesting.

Also yes, I think it’s fundamentally wrong when company profits are on the back of the low paid staff they employ who are then helped with in work benefits. I see that as the profit level being subsidised by the many taxpayers for the benefit of the few company owners or shareholders. I know businesses exist to make profit and nothing wrong with that, but the level of profit should not be reliant on the benefit system.

I wasn't in a low paid job but I was in professional career that didn't pay the big bucks, and honestly the money isn't a compensation for nursery, or for the hours I'd have missed with the kids working unpaid overtime. If I'd been earning 80,000/100,00+ and my lifestyle has been adjusted to this, the decision making balance might have been different.

However, that career was my choice. For many women the fact the job is lowly paid or ill-suited to mixing with family life isn't a choice. I can't imagine how tough it must be to spend a day dealing with elderly personal care for people with dementia on shift work to then deal with young children.

Sone people would hate being a sahm. It doesn't mean that you love your job more than your child , merely that you don't want to spend 24/7 with a kid

That’s a very fair point. But you would REALLY have to love your job and hate being a SAHM to pay for 40hrs a week childcare when you’re only getting 15hrs of work.

Why would you have 40 hours childcare if you are only working 15??
But nothing wrong withh paying child care for more hours than you work. For example work 3 days and use childcare for 4

You are correct. I didn't consider staying home for a moment because:

a) I work in a hi-tech sector that changes fast
b) a year or two out would have dated my skills significantly making it very hard to return.
c) benefits don't pay the mortgage.

Plus I found the last part of my maternity leave to be without sufficient mental challenge to keep me sane. I needed to get back to work.

Just coming at this from a slighty left field position here that's not quite relevant, but your judging people on lower paid work who don't return and yet with your higher paid partner you don't need to work ? But you presumably chose to have a child knowing you would be putting them into a working nursery for still long hours?

I thought nursey was always a very last resort for financially desperate families who had to both work ? Other wise is that fair to the small child who spends more time in care than quality time with their family ?

There is a middle ground. I went back part time, paid about 50% of my wage on childcare (more like 70% for the first year).

Ironically this meant I was receiving government money in the form of free hours and tax free childcare when I would have got nothing by not returning. And I didn't earn enough to pay income tax.

And yet I was rarely if ever judged, as the anti-SAHM lot saw I was working and the "Why would you have a child to put them in nursery" lot saw I was only using 4 hours a day. Go figure.

It's almost like there should be more part-time roles that don't pay minimum wage available, no?

I’ve gone back after all 4 of mine. I’m a nurse. Worked full time with first 2 then part time with my youngest 2 and was then a single parent. Also had a child with sen so I could not work full time.

People don’t know others circumstances or really even understand why a parent with a child with additional needs might not be able to work full time, it’s scuppered chances of training for a better position and kept me in part time position but it’s also given me flexibility to be there at meetings:hospital appointments etc for my son and when it comes down to it that’s more important at the moment. would I rather not have to rely on benefits to top up my wage - yes! 100% but you make the decision to do what is best for your child and family at the time.

Nursery as a last resort?? Honestly.

Is it fair on a child to be stuck at home with a parent who hates being there and would rather be at work

And you can't say kids of SAHM have quality time the whole day either, just u realistic

You have to be invested in your job which doesnt match up with lower wages without a specialist skill

My job couldn't walk way feom and get back in without significant re training. So I went pt. Childcare was more than my wages but luckily dh agreed it was an investment to keep my job and skill set. If it hadnt been the need to maintain my skills I probably would have left for a while

I don’t think it’s that black and white. If talking about benefits there is also a morality issue. Some people won’t be happy to live off the state.

I was raised in a single parent low income family. My mom always worked (except the few years it was impossible) because she felt it was morally wrong to have the taxpayer fund her. Despite her earning less than she would have had on benefits.

The government doesnt pay my 30hours thats paid employment.

I dont work for the government.
What a bizarre comment.

Imagine saying you earn over 100k but then whinge “it isn’t fair” that some people survive in UC.

Well when 60% is deducted then yeah it isnt fair. Alao I dont earn over 100k im 46k.

In which case if you have used childcare in order to work, your funded hours were paid by the government, and your tax free bonus, which you claimed they didn’t because your employment paid it?
So you’re happy to take the government handout that comes your way, but it’s different when others do it?

I dont get funded hours!!!

I am in Scotland so funded hours only available 3-5 years old. So dont make assumptions.

Thats okay, your silence speaks a thousand words. Also since we earn over 100k we wont be able to apply for funded hours when little one is 3. So nope, I dont claim anything at all. I have never claimed anything. Even if I did its an incentive to stay In work. Better than a government paying me a wage to stay home!

Was her issue with your comment that you may be underestimating that for many of those mothers, they may actually have made their decision primarily on wanting to be with their children?

I was myself a higher earner with a professional job, but still chose to be a SAHM because that was always what I wanted to do. It used to annoy me when people would say ‘oh childcare is so expensive’, because that was irrelevant to my decision- if childcare had been free, I still would have chosen not to use it and to look after my own children myself. I didn’t feel some people fully understood my reasoning- this was always my first choice, not a default one.

I do actually agree with you that there is less incentive to return to work if you are in a lower paid job, but I would guess some use that as a socially acceptable excuse when they may actually be relieved not to have to return and enjoy their time with their own children instead.