To think Andy Burnham is doing a decent job so far?

[spiceupyourlives]

I’m really impressed by him working with the tories and Lib Dems on social care. It’s what we’ve needed more of in this country for so long, and a solution to the crisis will only come about if the next party to take charge is also committed to the solution.

I don't think the same people said those two different things.
And I haven't said it's good he's getting hate, just that it's fascinating. I guess that's the kind of comprehension that leads to the issues we have.

You said : Good point - in response to: The amount of vitriol he’s attracting is an indication of just how rattled his detractors are.

I am showing that the same argument that was used to detract from Starmer is being used.

It does show how rattled people are. I still don't think the hate is good! I would rather people managed to disagree without hating.

I agree. I didn’t make a value judgement about the criticism Burnham’s attracting, just noted that it’s indicative of the threat he seems to represent to people who don’t want progressive government. A lot of Labour voters - including me - welcomed Starmer with open arms but became increasingly disillusioned as time went on. A lot of Starmer’s critics were supporters of his party.

Unfortunately the dislike of Starmer had spread beyond those who make it their business to malign and discredit any Labour politician simply because they hate Labour, and entered the mainstream. This was in part due to successful propaganda on the part of the anti Labour contingent, but also due to Starmers own failure to connect with the electorate, explain his direction and publicise his progress.
Those who support his replacement with Burnham anticipate Burnham won't have these weaknesses.
The anti Labour cohort anticipate it too, and know that if they are to discredit him, they will have to do a lot more heavy lifting. So they're coming at him hard and heavy from the get go with everything they can think of from misrepresenting his words, to attacking his character, to fear mongering predictions, to his wife's appearance. Its fascinating to watch.

Good point. I think you're right.

It's easy to talk about what you're going to do.

Well, for one thing the attacks on Andy Burnham are - from what I’ve seen - all very petty, very personal and in many cases entirely hypothetical, which I think is what shows how rattled his opponents are. They’re scrambling to find an attack line that’ll stick. And so far, they’re failing.

I’ve genuinely seen his accent mocked by very posh broadcasters as if that passes for scrutiny. It’s just so pathetic and so off putting to the millions of people up and down the country who speak with a regional accent. I’ve seen it said he’s provisional/ parochial and all he did as Manchester Mayor was look after buses - that’s just clearly untrue, as well as unbelievably patronising. Then there is the screeching hysteria about tax raises he has not even announced. Not to mention the classist attacks on his education and his clothes - as if a working class person being bright and hardworking enough to get Cambridge, and then earning enough to buy nice clothes is somehow hypocritical. It’s just so desperate.

And the thing is, these hysterical attacks are just so completely at odds with public opinion. Unfortunately - because I do think he did some good things in office - Keir Starmer did not have the personal qualities a modern Prime Minister needs to bring the general public with him. Andy Burnham patently does. He is soaring in the polls, and all the evidence suggests the more people see of him, the more they like him.

He has a lot of political good will right now, I really hope he can live up to it. My personal - admittedly optimistic - opinion is that he will.

Yes. Everything, you’ve said.

It's easy to criticise when someone has been in the job 5 minutes. Would you rather he didn't talk about what he's going to do and didn't have any ideas? We have had several of those already.

Well, let's hear Andy. One of his projects turned out not to be costed. The other one was cancelling a grant for climate change projects in developing countries, and making them take out loans instead:

'This phase of government is about reprioritising' - Burnham - BBC News

It actually isn’t that easy to talk about what you’re going to do. I don’t think we have had a Prime Minister with any real oratory skill since David Cameron.

Arguably, Keir Starmer’s downfall was his inability to articulate what he was going to do and why.

Equally, Theresa May’s failed attempts at reforming social care have come up a lot on this thread - and there’s definitely an argument that her vision was not necessary wrong, but that she failed to talk about it in a way that brought people with her.

Talking about what you’re doing to do in a way that is persuasive, inspiring and wins people’s trust is one of the primary functions of any Prime Minister. And so far, Andy Burnham is doing well at it.

I agree. And look where David Cameron's oratory skills got us.

The mistake May made was twofold. She attempted to fundamentally change social care when half the country and every politician was obsessed with Brexit. And she just plonked it into a manifesto with no pitch rolling.

Totally. The biggest political fart-and-leave-the-room in at least a century.

This all makes sense with one caveat.

He's saying all right things, but at this stage it's unclear how he's going to fund it.

So the real thing will come in Nov budget and then we'll be able to judge if he's just another one for redistribution. If he's going to hit SE/middle classes with yet another tax raid then he's goner.

Absolutely right. But more than that, he says all the right things to absolutely everyone, whether it's pre-ordained in a speech or off-the-cuff when he's being 'authentic' (or, less charitably, when he's thinking out loud but manages to make it sound like a policy decision.)

And the problem then is that everything becomes contradictory to one extent or another. I was working in the Commercial Directorate at the Department of Health in 2010-11 when he was coming out with off-the-cuff remarks which, when turned into action by people in the NHS, were simply unlawful. And the way he tied himself in knots with Greater Manchester's ULEZ by promising contradictory things to different groups showed that he hasn't learned. So yes, he's remarkably consistent in his shapeshifting and his poverty of critical thinking.

He has made promises since becoming PM that by some measures run up to £96bn, all of which is unfunded.

I don't care about his accent, or about his dress sense. I care that he's a fraud, a chronic people-pleaser who cannot afford the promises he's making.

But what is interesting is the majority of people actually living in Manchester don’t see what happened over ULEZ as him tying himself in knots, or promising contradictory things. The original Clean Air Zone was designed before the pandemic or the cost of living crisis. It was no longer fit for purpose by the time it was due to be rolled out, and a vast majority of people in Manchester were grateful to have a political leader who listened to and responded to their concerns and ultimately chose pragmatism over ideology. We got the Bee network and Manchester is still going to achieve the goals on air pollution by the end of this year, without the charge.

I do understand it’s about perspective though: one person’s shape shifting is another person’s political agility 🤷‍♀️

But of course it’s absolutely true that the budget will be the real test of all his plans.

When he does this downward mouth face he brings to mind the muppets.

The only issue Ihave is the time it’s going to take. It’s not AB’s fault but social care is so so urgent. It’s depressing to think it’s going to be talks for months etc and that it could take years or just never happen

Had he actually done anything yet? Talking about what he wants to do is not a good job done

Give him chance ,at least he is bringing social care to the forefront . It’s been kicked into the long grass for so long and it’s affecting far too many people for it to be ignored much longer

He’s been PM for less than two weeks and parliament is in recess. The expectations of some people are insane.

He was going to fix it when he was Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.

Spoiler alert: he didn't.

Because there was a general election and he was in opposition. It’s going to take years to sort out.