AIBU to feel intimidated by my manager on a graduate scheme?

[crowdale]

I’m on a graduate scheme (won’t say what industry because outing!). The pay isn’t great and at my age I should be earning higher, with the qualifications and experience I’ve got but life happened and here I am.

I find my place of work lovely. The team is lovely and despite being a high stress environment I love working there, I love my field of work, and I love learning more about the industry.

My issue with my manager. He is very difficult and has a reputation on the team for being cold and almost bullying of other people. He’s had grievances put in against him but these have gone nowhere due to his position and well power.

My manager gives me a lot of unrealistic demands for a graduate and I just have to work out how to do it. It’s been a good learning experience but I honestly don’t know whether I’m coming or going! One meeting he will tell me I need to do something (ridiculously above my pay grade). I will then do it and he’ll tell me it’s not my pay grade to do that and he’s concerned I’ve done it?

He will nit pick over the most ridiculous of things. I’ll send a full 40 page report to him and he’ll send an email back saying something along the lines of “can you change the size of the text from 11 to 12”… surely it takes more effort to check the size, then email me rather than just clicking a button to change it?

He’s tried to undermine me in team meetings when I have read out reports. He’s interrupted me during a presentation saying “I think I edited this bit, isn’t this the wrong presentation?”. I said it’s the one you sent me, should I stop there? He said no carry on. Team members approached me after this and asked if I was ok, it was embarrassing. He later apologised saying he hadn’t been paying attention to the slides but he’s checked and it’s the right one.

He’s also told me he finds me very quiet in meetings and that he’d like me to offer my perspectives more. When I have done this, he’s told me after meetings that it’s not really up to me to speak up, I’m “so far down the chain that no one listens to” me?

More recently he approached me and asked if I was ok because I looked tired. I said I had some stuff going on at home but felt like it wasn’t affecting my work. He responded “good. Don’t need you to be cancelling commitments with clients”.

I find him really intimidating. He never shouts at me or anything but constantly reminds me I’m a graduate trainee, but asks me to do qualified tasks.

I find him totally unapproachable and have placed myself on a desk quite far from him. This became an issue and he keeps making digs on how I’m sitting away from him and not joining him for lunch.

Other leadership members have noticed this and keep asking if I’m ok. I feel stuck in the middle. I feel like if I get support from them my manager could put in a grievance against me?

Am I being totally pathetic feeling like this?

I think YABU. This might be tough to hear, but do you think you're coming across as a bit superior? I ask this because you start by saying "at my age I should be earning higher with the qualification and experience I've got". That may be tainting how you are perceived at work. I've written the response below as I recently retired from working in a really high pressure role at a household name, and the company you are in may have very high standards and be high-pressure too. I hope this helps (that's my only intention).

Taking your points:
How do you know he's had past grievances raised against him? Are you sure you are not picking up general gossip and letting it guide your opinion of him?

Do you think the work is unrealistic for your pay grade, or for your ability? If you can't do the work it's one thing (then you should seek assistance), if it's just due to the pay grade you need to get the work done well and prove you can earn more and deliver really well.

Re the point in a meeting where he asked if he edited something - don't take things so personally. It literally seems he asked you a question, he didn't undermine you.

Re the report change, probably he wants the font changed at the start so he can see how the final thing looks - but it's a small easy thing. Do it and send it back without issue. Yes he could do it himself - but then you won't learn.

May be his comment re "cancelling commitments" was a jokey thing, making you feel they can't do without you, to react to that seems over sensitive to me.

I don't see why he would put in a grievance against you, but if you are not performing well then he may put you on a performance improvement plan. Do you have one to one's with a manager or graduate mentor? If not it would be helpful to ask for this and get something set up on a regular basis. I think you've done the wrong thing by moving away, you need to ensure you are professional, well-engaged, not sensitive and that you engage well.

I am not making excuses for him, and I'm not there of course - but if you are working well and engaging and delivering well then he has no reason to single you out. You could be making yourself the victim here for absolutely no reason.

Have you got a mentor on the scheme who you could talk to? It sounds very difficult.

This is uncomfortable reading. I completely disagree with the first comment and their reading of the situation. Asking you to do a task above your grade then asking why you’ve done it sounds particularly strange. I’d keep a note of examples like this dates and any supporting evidence. Again repeated digs about you not having lunch with him are unprofessional unless everyone else on the team is also having lunch together with him. Whether I’d raise a grievance depends on how long you realistically have to work with him before moving up or changing teams.

He sounds difficult

I assume you are keeping a "paper trail" where you can? Harder for him to say you shouldn't have done it, if there's an email confirming he asked you to do it (whatever it is)

“He’s also told me he finds me very quiet in meetings and that he’d like me to offer my perspectives more”.

LOL. “Unlike so many men, Derek, I tend not just to open my mouth and let my belly rumble: I’ll speak when I have something worthwhile to say”.

Don’t say this, BTW: this is what I’d immediately be thinking, tho. I have this male colleague (a manager in our division). When it comes to “anything else to say” particularly in larger meetings, he’ll ALWAYS say something. It’s like “STFU, Colin: I’m absolutely starving for my lunch”.

is this AI?

I can see both sides to this.

Having worked for a very difficult manager in the past who would change their mind at a drop of a hat, you sometimes need to grit your teeth, nod politely and do what they have deemed acceptable today (even if they change their mind tomorrow). It is frustrating, but if they are doing it to you, they will be doing it to others - everyone will be aware of what the situation is, even if it is not explicitly referenced.
If you have a mentor, I recommend scheduling weekly or fortnightly catch ups, so you can discuss your progress, expectations and areas for improvement.

Comments about personality are unprofessional (again, I have had it - been told I am too quiet, too emotional etc.). They shouldn't happen, but they do (and usually only to women).

I found being on a graduate scheme very challenging. I found the change from university to work a huge jump, and I received feedback which I didn't like at the time (being too quiet, not assertive enough, too introverted, etc.). They extended my probation. However, it was the absolute making of me. I took their feedback, made sure I had regular feedback sessions, made sure any feedback I had I acted on immediately. It put me out my comfort zone and really put me through my paces. However, I can confidently say that all that made me into a far more competent professional at the end of it.

Write down everything weird and date it just in case

Keep a trail of it all. So email summaries of his requests ALWAYS to confirm. Summary of what you’ve been asked to do and done each Friday. You need to be systematic about it so he knows you know what he’s up to.

No I wrote it myself.

Are there others managing the grad scheme? Anyone in HR who can support? A mentor is a really good idea.
could you ask for feedback from others?

I agree with @flapperabout the point in the meeting he asked a question and then corrected him self, it’s a non issues.

He was right to send it back to you to change the font or any thing changed like that.

if he asks you to do something that isn’t your responsibility rather than pushback, email a question to him and rephrase the request , eg “can I just clarify on that final contact that you want me to change- is it to 12 unicorn tears not phoenix feathers? Create a paper trail

You do not have to like him, he cannot expect you to have lunch with him. You need to an excuse and stick to it. Find your people. Do not flounder when other people approach you and ask if you are ok after observing an interaction this is undermining- you do not want pity. Yes I’m fine thanks.

Next time he states he want you to speak up in meetings, just say sorry I don’t want to overstep. Then plan for the next meeting “do you want me to contribute tomorrow at the rainbow building meeting?”

he said you look tired- don’t disclose personal problems. It’s small talk or concern. Say something crap like so hot can’t sleep. Again you look weak.

HE isn’t going to put in a grievance against a graduate trainee that is not how they work. A grievance is a serious complaint problem or unfair treatments. So you could feel that he is targeting you and that would be a grievance. In my industry a grievance would usually mean it is an untenable situation.

You like it there. Find your people and your groove and let this man not bother you. Just yes no of course no problem, right. Do not over think it.

I find your post very strange at the start and I think this is 90% of your problem. You feel that you are better than the role you are doing. And I think he knows you think that way...I personally had this when I employed graduates in starter roles when I was a manager in an insurance company and it did put me off them, as there were others who came in keen to learn and develop.

He sounds a bit of a challenge...but I could name 10 or so managers who I worked for/with who were worse in expecting people to jump through hoops. One was shown daily how to attach a file to an email for about 6 months...it was clearly a power thing... I'll interrupt someone to show how important I am and who I'm emailing.

If you document what is said and when and read it back dispassionately you might see that he's trying to stretch you and get you to develop skills he doesn't see at the moment... like speaking in meetings and showing some passion for the job... although he then slapped you down about speaking which is the only strange thing I see here.

I had a manager who would change her mind about what she wanted me to do, or how she wanted me to do it, several times within the span of a 20 minute meeting. The only way to pin her down was to say, towards the end of the meeting 'so, to confirm, you want me to do A, B, and C by X time copying in Y? And then asking her to confirm that in an email 'so that I don't get muddled'.

I am autistic and get extremely uncomfortable and stressed when I don't have clear guidelines on what is required, even if those guidelines are to give me carte blanche to do it however I see fit, so I have developed strategies to ensure I get what I need. One time I was asked to provide a report on something very vague for our Director of Finance, by my manager. I tried to pin her down further but she didn't give me any clear idea on what was required, the information that was expected from the report, the format (graphs, charts or just text), the length or even a clear idea on the timescale. I was quite capable of doing the work, I just needed to know what it was. So - in this case - a report on how hospital trusts were providing care during covid. How large an area? Regional? In England? Great Britain? Europe? Global? What kind of care? To whom was the information being directed? What kind of information were they looking for? Logistical, social, financial etc. Was there a specific way in which they would like to receive it? What level of detail were they looking for? A 4 page report with half the space taken up with charts, or a 40 page, number dense, report. A document or a slide-deck? I provided a 12 page document, based on logistical and practical solutions, in England, containing quite a lot of charts, within 3 weeks, and I have absolutely NO idea whether it was ever read or used, or even of any use at all.

I think my manager was, quite frankly, inadequate. She talked the talk (a lot) and was full of management-speak and corporate wankiness but didn't actually lead us or produce anything herself. Since she left I have heard from managers in other departments, with whom I am friendly, that she is not at all missed - which I am interpreting as her having jumped before she was pushed.

In your case I would try to get clear instructions in writing as to what is required, and I would push back, politely, if asked to do something that you understand is outwith your level of responsibility. Remind your manager that you think this is something that they have told you previously is not something with which you should be involved and, if they continue to insist that you should do it, ask them politely to confirm that in an email. Keep a specific folder for emails from your manager so that you can refer back to them. This will cover your back, but will also ensure that there is no risk of you misunderstanding what is required from you.

Am I being totally pathetic feeling like this?

No.

I remember being a 20 year old fashion intern in London and was horrifically bullied by my female manager. It made me ill. Luckily it was only temporary and part of my degrees placement year. Although I learnt to never ever let someone allow me to feel small or intimidated in the workplace ever again. And now I stand up to bullies if I ever come across them, and take no shit.

My best advice is- if you want to stay at this job, please do not let him get to you. I know it sounds cliche and it’s easier said than done. If he undermines you please realise it’s because he is insecure and power hungry, and other people will pick up on it. It’s a control thing. They’ll feel uncomfortable and awkward, but too scared to say anything. Please know, you are 100 times better than him. His salary and hierarchy doesn’t mean shit.

When he questions you why you’ve done something above your “grade” confidently challenge him by saying “oh is this not what you wanted? Going forwards I want written instructions and expectations on tasks”.

You are also well within your rights to seek advice and support from any of your other colleagues.

He is gaslighting you unfortunately a common situation in domestic abuse relationships but also happens in the workplace. I have a similar manager but I am older than him. My working life is unhappy as a result. I suggest you start a log of everything he does which contravenes the 'Dignity at Work' policy. Respond to all his requests with an email asking for clarification on them so you can both be aligned. If he then challenges his initial request you have written proof. Document everything. I recently had to talk to the overall manager at work about my manager's behaviour towards me which had escalated and it was a hard conversation because she initially supported him but I had my log and documents plus 2 work colleagues who witnessed his unkind way of speaking to me and confirmed this to her. You are probably smarter than him and he resents this rather than seeing you as a positive addition. There are some helpful people on instagram with workplace advice. I have followed the advice of one called Yasa Ahmad but there are many others. Wish you well and ignore other posts on here blaming you.