To ask why the England team (the men) keep falling at the final hurdle, (well virtually at the final hurdle,) at the football World Cup ... and The Euros too?

[GorgeousSpringtime]

Not an England-team bashing thread, but why, oh WHY do they - the men - keep falling at the final hurdle (well, virtually the final hurdle,) every time at the football (soccer) World Cup - and the Euro Cup too...?

They do so well, and get so far, and then BANG they're out. Nearly always in the top 8, or top 4, (and the top 2, in the World Cup once, and a couple of times in the Euros I think,) but never the winner. (Not since 1966 anyway!)

Is it nerves? Is it that they're so anxious to win that they keep making silly mistakes? Are they just not quite good enough? WHAT IS IT? Why do they keep getting so close, but just never manage to get the win?!

As I said, I am not bashing them, and they did well, and I am proud of them, but I just get so frustrated that they can't quite ever get the win!

!

Given the collective salaries of those men playing for England last night is estimated to be over £192 million a year, one might think that they could/should have played better....

However, it's a game. It was played in serious heat/humidity, the other team played dirty and the Ref wasn't completely fair on occasion. And one team had to lose.

💯

Where did you get it from that Enzo Fernandez is Arsenal? He's a Chelsea player. They literally celebrated his goal on social media (and then deleted it).

No idea but as a Scot long may it continue! 🙌

This makes no sense though because by that measure Argentina’s players mostly play abroad? You’ve just named 5 players playing abroad.

No - according to some of the European press that may have been a reaction to the existing defenders falling apart either from the freeze reaction other posters have mentioned or from sheer physical exhaustion.

We changed the way we were playing completely once we had the first goal against Argentina and that is pure tactics. If we'd carried on actually playing football we would have had a chance of winning. Not guaranteed, Argentina may well still have won, but we would have had a much better chance.

One goal against a team like Argentina with 40 minutes on the clock isn't good enough to play so defensively and not even try to get possession and score again. It was unbelievable, most of the second half of the game happened inside England's box. Argentina are good but we let them do that, it was a complete choice. Pickford was hopping around like the energiser bunny doing saves the whole time.

It was an awful watch, you could see what was going to happen before it actually did. It was a bit like a horror movie where you know the axe murderer is lurking outside the cabin and it's only a matter of time before he kills someone. Awful.

Both Gareth Southgate and Thomas Tuchel lost their nerve at the final hurdle and tried to keep onto the lead by being defensive rather than continue attacking when we were in the ascendancy. It was ludicrous given that our attack is better than our defence.

He will have known.

It was very clear last night winding up Bellingham was part of the Argentinian tactics.

One of the problems England face when they come up against teams like Argentina is that England have a way of playing, and they tend to stick to it. The defensive subs show that - that’s what’s worked through the tournament, going ahead and then going defensive, but it was never going to work against a team with the attacking flair of Argentina.

This.

The other team were better cheaters you mean.

When Argentina were belting out their national anthem with such conviction I felt it was going to be pretty much impossible to win.

Historically

1. A tradition of the press building up the team to knock it down...making other results in the past where we exceeded the skill and ability of our players look failures
2. Until Southgate repeated managers who weren't brave enough to tell the players to grow up and stop letting club loyalty get in way of being grown up
3. allowing the media to pick the team examples being the freezing out of La Tissier, Stan Bowles and constantly playing Gerrard and Lampard together. Because the press lobbied for their favourite and knew they could destroy the manager

This Tournament

1. Venus....Mexico City at altitude, miami in the heat the legs were gone in the 2nd half
2. failing to take another right back
3. Henderson injury and the fact that Mainoo wasn't fancied by the manager....Rice should have been replaced at 60 mins
4. poor tactic to sit back
5. ref was following instructions to let the game flow and didn't stop the fouls until the end of the first half

No they don't, they have been good enough to win the world cup on several occasions so it's natural to be disappointed when it still hasn't happened.

They performed at a level consistent with their FIFA ranking (4).

What do they need to do to get better ? A moot point.

But IMO the big difference between England and the higher teams at the moment is their team play rather than the ability of individual players.

When England are attacking and the opposition is in the low block, you always feel they have issues breaking it down (eg Ghana). When England are defending you always feel it is a desperate cling on for life (Mexico) rather than a well organised and impenetrable defence.

I think Tuchels tactics (1-0 and park the bus) were absolutely correct at this level. It's just that the players can't park the bus. As individuals they are great players that are more than capable of doing this, it's just that they for some reason can't. Maybe it is the coaching set up they have.

As a nation England does pretty well in relation to its size. Plenty of other countries where football is popular like Germany, Japan, China, Mexico and Italy where they didn't make it as far as England. So they did pretty well all in all.

The French self destructed - I would be a lot more frustrated if I were France.

Teams that are generally supposed to be among the best, had already been wiped out - Germany, France, The Netherlands.

No they didn't they went on an open top bus through Oslo, they celebrated their team getting that far....

This time it was due to Tuchel making the wrong decision. Going defensive after the goal was a mistake and ultimately cost us.

Argentina are a different beast to Mexico and Norway and of course it wasn't going to work like it did with them.

That's a rude thing to say.

Imagine if someone posted on here that they didn't want Scotland to win something because they were English! It just wouldn't happen! Yet as a Scot you think it's ok to make it clear you don't like the English.

This sums it up.
Disgusting dirty tactics and poor ref early on.

Then becoming defensive instead of feeding that ball to no 10 or Kane. Taking off best players like Gordon etc. going defensive.

I can't understand why that line that was so effective against Mexico failed.
I think at the moment we've got the best team we've ever had.

Hopefully they can be proactive against the French and shine.

I know, I posted on a Scottish thread celebrating Scotland getting through to the WC after so many years of nothing, but to be honest we expect nothing else from them really.....

France went out at the same point as us, so they weren't "already wiped out"

Agree.

I don't think they will. I wish they could just come home.