AIBU to be angry about another misleading programme on Romany Gypsies?

[IronEverything]

I just can't believe this is happening again.

Some of you may remember the show called "my big fat gypsy wedding" on channel 4 from years ago. It did absolutely awful damage to my community (Romany gypsy). It was complete and utter trash and majority of those featured weren't even gypsies.

Well they're at it again.

They are advertising a new show, something along the lines of "secret lives of gypsy wives". Yet the star of the show is a social media influencer (?) named Trewly Precious who is neither of those things. I think her father was a gypsy but she wasn't raised in the community and she isn't married.

Why are they doing this to us? There are so many amazing gypsy women who could have shown what it's really like to be a modern day gypsy. Yet they have once again chosen entertainment value over the reputation of a community who are already marginalised and hated by a large portion of the public. AIBU to be so angry about this?

@Comeondoreen just being curious, what are the elements of Balkan Romani culture that you haven’t experienced that make you feel not properly Romani?

Could you tell us about which stereotypes are incorrect from those programmes?

I think the key things that stayed in the public consciousness were that girls leave education very young, get married very young and like to wear very big dresses.

I agree it's trash TV and that's what sells but when the focus of the programme is likely perpetuating stereotypes against a minoritised group who already experience racism and discrimination, it shouldn't be acceptable.

We may have views on the various housewives of but I doubt they experience harassment and discrimination just because they live in a gated community, have a few quid and get their hair done regularly.

Don't apologise. Im English Romani and Eastern European Romani. Im talking about society lumping all groups together and Just assume Romani when there are clear differences but I suppose someone would only notice the difference if they belong to one them , an outsider wouldn't be able to distinguish the nuance maybe. And that because of the way some of these groups conduct themselves it gives everyone a bad name. And now there's a tv show with people who aren't from the culture really so it paints us in bad light . They'll just think we dress awfully, have glitter and diamond all over the furnishings ,clean everything and anything with bleach and walk around calling everyone "mush"

@IronEverything You say you are marginalised and hated…but please understand what life is like living as someone who is terrorised by the travelling community.

We have a small farm and face constant threat of illegal encampment on our land, fly tipping, poaching and farm equipment being stolen. You drive around in uninsured and untaxed vehicles: what makes you so special?

I drive around in those vehicles do I? You must know me personally then do you?

@PetiteParakeet it’s a funny one because everything I can think of to answer you sounds like a ridiculous answer, almost a stereotypical one. But I suppose essentially I grew up with no Romani community except my own family (though tbh quite a few of us came over so it’s a big family!). I grew up going to school, I grew up with no social pressures around sex and the opposite sex - there are aspects of gender pressures even in English Romany cultures today, so I’ve been told, let alone in Balkan Romani cultures. I grew up in a very “stable” way. There are places in the region that are important that I’ve never been to. I grew up without poverty - it sounds weird to say but suffering through poverty seems like a huge aspect of the “identity”. My life is just so different to my parents’ let alone my grandparents’.

Another factor is that my family are from a Romani group who are Muslim. My mother’s parents converted upon arriving in Bosnia so were not particularly into it. Therefore my mother was only ever half heartedly Muslim really. Neither I or any of my siblings would call ourselves Muslim now, I reject it entirely tbh. So that is probably a factor that is specific to the Balkan groups. My mother’s parents were originally living around Moldova and a little of Ukraine and originally Christian - my grandmother in particular clung onto this despite “converting”. So that had an influence on me that I feel like muddled/confused my cultural understanding maybe?

thanks for asking as it’s an interesting question, and I’m sorry I don’t have a better answer - like I said, it is almost like Romani people regard it as an almost spiritual aspect of a person. It’s hard to put into words. You would never say, for example, that an ethnically Chinese person growing up in the U.K., with Chinese family and who spoke mandarin at home, is not really Chinese. That would be absurd. But it just feels different for my ethnicity.

You're missing the point. The lived reality for SO MANY of us is overwhelmingly negative when we encounter gypsies and travellers. I cannot think of a single other group who have such a (justifiably) terrible reputation.

The misogyny and violence and absolute disregard for the "settled" population is awful. I don't judge individuals and I try to think the best of people but as a group... No one is thrilled when we see the gypsies have arrived on the village playing fields.

It’s a bit ironic that you’re against Romany people being lumped together with everyone else, yet you keep using “British Traveller” as a catch-all without saying which community you actually mean @Whettlettuce

Do you know the difference between a gypsy and an irish traveller? Why are you accusing both of the same behaviour?

@Whettlettuce ahh, got you. I don’t understand enough about English Romany gypsies to comment really, other than I suppose even if they do all those things you describe it doesn’t change the fact that they are Romany. Am I right in thinking that there’s now lots of intermarriage between Irish Travellers and Romany Gypsies? That will blur the lines for many unfortunately.

It’s so interesting to me that there is one stereotype of gypsies like as you describe, but tbh it would never occur to me to worry about that stereotype as my family being foreign makes it very different. But I do worry about the stereotype of Romanian/EE gypsies as that does affect how people view my family. Unfortunately, if you’re English and EE, it sounds like you might be on the receiving end of two different stereotypes!! It’s exhausting.

Because I have experienced extreme anti social behaviour from both groups. The centre of our town is a nightmare in the summer with travellers and we’ve had problems all my life with gypsies.

Neither group cover themselves in glory. You seen ok with people having a problem with Irish travellers but my lived experience is that both groups can be extremely dishonest and disrespectful of the local community and the environment.

And I’m thinking back to my childhood many, many years ago when there weren’t Irish travellers in our area and the “issues” were entirely from the gypsy community.

I won't waste my time on responding. You're coming from a position of lifelong prejudice, it's pointless.

I remember going to buy a Christmas tree when I was about 10 and the man taking our money dropping some coins and stepping on them very quickly and holding his hand out to say we hadn’t paid enough. My (headmaster) father told him to move his foot and lo and behold, there was the missing money. I remember the owner of the tree farm apologising and saying he wouldn’t give a gypsy another chance. I also remember the man who’s dropped the coins scowling and being really aggressive with my dad and the farm owner - and me!

I really don’t judge individuals. My experience alongside the vast majority of the UK of groups of gypsies has not been positive. That’s not a wild thing to say. Do a poll to see if anyone has been negatively impacted by gypsies in their community and see how that goes.

The TV programme sounds trash. I won’t watch.

But I’m not sure you can pick and choose who you think is “gypsy enough.”

There's really not that much intermarriage between the Irish and The English Romani. There is some of course but from what ive seen its rare. The two groups dont seem to like each other much i dont think. There is marriage between showman and Romani though ive seen alot, but most of my family were wiped out on the holocaust so not many left. They do still love an arranged marriage though, although I rebuked that and it went down like a lead balloon as you can imagine.

I dont worry about the stereotype much to be honest, but yes it does view how people see me ,if I choose to tell them. My great great grandfather was a Persian Gypsy so im ethnically ambiguous to be honest. Nobody can guess my ethnicity and they dont get it right 🤷

You keep saying “British Travellers” is a separate group, but you still won’t define it. Are Irish Travellers and Scottish Gypsy/Travellers “British Travellers” to you, or have you just made up your own category?

@Whettlettuce oh interesting. I’d been told otherwise. I know zilch about showmen so I’m even more out my depth now!

Sorry to hear you lost family. My grandparents lost family in the holocaust, the holocaust was actually how my mum’s side ended up in Bosnia. Which to me seems a bizarre move (and come the 90s proved to be very unwise!!), but I don’t know too much about the specifics as they hated to talk about it. They would talk and wax lyrical about nearly anything, but never those years. It was almost forbidden to talk about.

I would be really interested in the type of serious documentary about gypsy women that you describe. My primary school had a lot of traveller children (I don’t know if Romany or Irish traveller, I was too young back then to know the difference, certainly some of them were “proper” gipsies though, so maybe Romany?).

Where i live there are two distinct groups. One Romani, one Irish traveller (yes, i know theres a difference!!). They are quite different but there are problems with both.

The romani group includes a local housed community but more travel through in summer and the biggest issue is unauthorised encampments leaving human excrement out in the open. The clean up jobs are awful.

The irish traveller group go door to door offering stuff like jet washing & patio laying. They can be really difficult to deal with because they refuse to do anything in writing & insist on cash, and this tends to lead to disputes. They have a terrible rep for pushy sales tactics and leaving jobs incomplete.

Oh and i dont think anyone thinks these stupid trashy programs really represent the vast majority of any GRT groups. Its car crash tv.

Ooh yes, this sounds brilliant. I'd love to know more about modern Gypsy lives @IronEverything! Have you done an AMA on here, by any chance?

YANBU, though - it's so upsetting to have your culture dragged through the mud by people who know fuck all about it. It really, really hurts. 💐

YANBU, though - it's so upsetting to have your culture dragged through the mud by people who know fuck all about it. It really, really hurts

But the young woman in question who will be in the show, does know plenty about it as she was apparently raised with a gypsy cultural influence.

However, the OP has been denying this woman’s culture.