Do parents think about the repercussions of sending their poorly child to nursery etc?

[Babycatsmummy]

Currently sat waiting to be admitted to the children’s ward with my 4 week old baby and I’m wondering if I’m being unreasonable here!

If you can clearly see you have an unwell child, why would you send them to nursery/childcare? I appreciate some parents have to work and it’s difficult to let your employer down but do people actually consider the domino effect?

my 2 year old came home 4 weeks ago the night before I was due for a c-section and started projectile vomiting all night. When I cane out with the baby 24 hours later, he was then taken to A&E with his breathing and stayed in to be treated for bronchitis. a week later he was back to his normal self.

Then on Saturday he developed a cough and cold. Sunday projectile diarrhoea and Monday again his breathing was awful. Trip to the GP and he’s been prescribed antibiotics, steroids and aerobiotics.

then my baby started to become unwell and last night we had to take him A&E where we are waiting to be admitted.

in the last 4 months we’ve had tonsillitis twice, chicken pox, hand foot and mouth and D&V!

the childminder sends out a newsletter and puts in big bold letters “ please do not send your child in if they are ill” and I’m constantly getting messages apologising because some parent has yet again decided to mark their child’s illness with calpol for a few hours!

I know children get ill quickly when so young because they are building their immune systems but are some parents really that selfish?!

Hand foot and mouth is easily spread and can’t be prevented via antibacterial spray/hand gel etc. The symptoms aren’t immediate so a parent wouldn’t necessarily know their child was carrying it. Also NHS advice stipulates no need to stay off school with it.

All children should either be vaccinated against or catch chicken pox young for obvious reasons.

There’s also an incubation period with stomach bugs but of course no one should send a child who is vomiting in. HTH.

do people actually consider the domino effect

The domino effect they will be thinking of is child not in nursery - I can't go to work - I'll lose my job - we won't be able to pay the rent / food bill.

Sadly parents do for many reasons normally needing to work and having no one to look after the child, but things spread like wildfire around nursery! We can always tell the ones who’ve had calpol in the morning as they’re bright and perky then noon hits and the slump starts! Niggly, crying, not wanting lunch and they’ll often say can have some more pink medicine!

A lot of people at desperate to delude themselves that their child vomiting is anything other than a bug. “My child threw up 5 times overnight, but they did have a marginally bigger dinner than normal so it was probably that. I’ll send them to school.”

And some people are arseholes. I had a conversation with a friend (well, the wife of DH’s friend) and she said that they send their son to nursery if he throws up because “he caught it at nursery, so it’s only fair that he still goes ha ha ha”. Dicks.

ETA - but you mention hand foot and mouth, which is most contagious before symptoms, and most nurseries/schools follow the NHS advice which is that there is no need to isolate. And viral tonsilitis isn’t really specifically contagious - someone might have a cold, which you catch and develops into tonsillitis for you.

To be fair we kept my DS off after he vomited once a couple of weeks ago and it was very evident it was travel sickness. It happened directly after a car journey and he didn’t vomit again, ate normally etc. Sometimes it is something else.

Equally years ago my older DS vomited after eating lots of sweets and jumping around, he didn’t vomit again so it was 100% this. I didn’t send him in the next day just incase but he was fine so sent him in the day after. I received a call to collect him because of the 48 hr rule even though I explained. Sometimes it obviously isn’t a bug.

Yes there are cases when parents send their unwell kids to settings and that’s wrong, but a lot of the time contagious illnesses aren’t immediately seen before the full symptoms appear. My DDs class was completely wiped out with chicken pox this year and that’s because kids can be contagious days before you start seeing actual spots appear. It’s the same with colds and flus and HFM, they might be groggy and you think oh maybe they didn’t get enough sleep, maybe the heat is bothering them then half way through the day the fever catches up or they’re bunged up.

I’m sorry your baby is in hospital x

Some of those spread before symptoms appear.

Sorry your child is ill.

Vomiting or diarrhoea, my children are kept home as per nursery/school protocol.

Coughs and colds, they go in.

Three absences for me lead to an investigation meeting at work. My children have coughs and colds more than three times a year, that’s not accounting for instances of D&V, and my own potential illness. The domino effect for me would be losing my job/home.

So sadly, no, I do not think about the domino effect of these ailments being passed on, the same way the other parents do not consider it when their child passes to mine. And I say this as a parent of an immunocompromised toddler.

I totally agree. Isolation is still the best way to avoid spreading disease and sick kids should stay home.

Many illnesses are airborne, even chickenpox. Nurseries need to be looking at cleaning the air, not just surfaces. This means ventilation, running air purifiers, monitoring CO2 levels. Have a look at www.cleanairforkids.co.uk for resources of what nurseries and schools should be doing to prevent airborne spread. The same approaches apply at home or anywhere else to limit contagion.

PS "buildng your immune system" through illness is a myth. Exposure to dirt is generally good, exposure to viruses is a totally different matter. Every viral infection carries risk, measles and covid actually damage our immune systems, and there is longitudinal research that shows that children who have many respiratory infections in childhood have worse long term health outcomes. So taking measures to prevent constant illness benefits our children.

Chicken pox you don't show symptoms for two weeks.

You're assuming parents did this but it might not be the case.

Usually the first thing I know about it is a call saying they've been sick come and pick them up. Occasionally I've thought they seemed a bit sleepier than usual the night before but it's been hard to know if it was them coming down with something or just a growth spurt or busy day.

Tbh chicken pox and other illnesses are at the most contagious before symptoms appear .

Vast majority of viruses are contagious before the first symptoms appear. I'm sorry, you are in an awful spot, but YABU.

Everyone I know with a toddler and a baby due take the toddler out of nursery for a few weeks beforehand because of this reason. I took my 3 year old (almost 4) out of nursery before my C section and he only went back when my second was 6 weeks. I appreciate not everyone has this option and an almost 4 year old is easier to manage with a baby around than a 2 year old but I just knew the deal with nursery = viruses.

Chicken pox, hand foot and mouth etc are all contagious before symptoms appear, and they are just known ones that go round nursery kids, nothing you can do.

Coughs and colds, kids go in as usual.

Sickness then they should be kept off for the 48hrs.

And why on earth did you send your child to childcare right before you had an operation? Every parent I know takes older children out of childcare a few weeks before due date/c section for this reason. The midwives even recommended I did this with my eldest to protect not only me but the newborn baby

We stick to the nursery sickness policy and the NHS guidelines. That means that if our kids have a disease but are well within themselves, they usually go to nursery (apart from D&V, in line with guidelines).

Our eldest came back with chickenpox the day before our C-section too, so I understand how difficult it is to manage, but the world can't stop moving every time a toddler gets sick.

If your toddler has any sign of illness, he should not be anywhere near your newborn.

This.

While society as a whole is happy to completely devalue the role of being a parent, this is the result.

I think you’re having a really hard time and I can see why you’re angry and upset.

It isn’t always that clear cut though. Yes a tummy bug and the exclusion period for it should be pretty clear but most other things aren’t so.

HFM you don’t have to exclude for unless they’re too upset to go because it’s most contagious before they come out.

A snotty nose and cold is pretty normal for a toddler until they get a temperature.

It can be hard to tell the difference between a teething baby and a fluey one.

I don’t think it’s always easy to know where to draw the line if both parents need to work.

Obviously unwell children would just get sent home again at our nursery, but a lot of things are infectious before the real symptoms show, and sometimes it’s impossible to know if something is ‘brewing’ or if your child is just having a grumpy start to the day.

Obviously kids should be kept off with certain illnesses and exclusion periods respected but going through the catalogue of childhood bugs is just part of nursery life, and things can develop (and pass) very quickly in little kids.

We very rarely get ill now, we’ve had all the usual stuff. It is just a process and unfortunately some kids are far more prone to suffering badly from them.

It’s pretty difficult to keep a toddler and a newborn apart especially if they both need to be held. It’s just part of having 2 young children. I don’t think we need to put any blame on OP for not keeping them more separate.

Maybe best to keep older child home whilst you have a tiny newborn. I know it’s helpful to have the break but probably best for now. I hope you little baby feels much better soon.

You are being massively unreasonable although I sympathise as my second was also admitted to hospital multiple times when they were a baby due to illnesses my first brought home from nursery. However as others point out, often you don’t know the kid is infectious until it’s too late and even if you do, sometimes there is no choice due to work commitments. It’s not selfish to send your kid in with a cold (which may or may not be something more serious) if the alternative is losing your job, getting a disciplinary etc. As you are obviously on maternity leave now you could always pull your eldest out of nursery while you have a newborn, the onus is on you really, rather than blaming other parents. That said hope your baby recovers soon, it’s very scary when they are sick so young!

The problem is that a lot of these infections have an incubation period when they may be infectious but the child isn’t ill. Chicken pox, for example, can be 3 weeks before spots appear with just a mild cough (I wouldn’t keep a child home for a mild cough).

My dc went to cub camp last year and in the course of the 12 hours they were there before being sent home in the middle of the night, 6 of the 12 children started vomiting. Apparently, a child had been sick in school that day (obviously none of us parents were informed of that), so we all sent our perfectly well children to camp for the weekend. 12 hours later half of them had come down with a bug. 🤷🏻‍♀️

No, if your child has a fever or chicken pox or d&v, they should be kept home. But you can’t keep them home for every cough and sniffle. If your family is particularly vulnerable (I’m immunocompromised, for example), then you need to take your own precautions.

I don’t think you can complain about chickenpox when there’s a vaccine and you haven’t taken it. Some illnesses are highly contagious before symptoms start to show. I don’t think anyone would have been able to send a child into nursery and mask projectile diarrhoea with calpol. Early tonsillitis for example symptoms can mimic a standard sore throat and toddlers in childcare almost permanently have cold symptoms- if you kept them home for that you wouldn’t be able to keep a job. I’m really sorry your baby is unwell and I hope they make a speedy recovery but kindly YABU.

Lots of germs spread before children are obviously symptomatic. There was a sick bug in my eldest class last year. No one came to school obviously ill then they all started puking late that night! The first signs of illness in a child are often vague - tiredness, grumpiness, reduced appetite - these are easily attributable to other things.

Plus a virus or bacteria that gives one child tonsilitis, a chest infection or even bacterial meningitis, can cause little more than a sniffle in another. My eldest was probably an asymptomatic super spreader, he never got any more than a mild runny nose while in his sister ended up in hospital with respiratory issues several times.

It’s not just parents who are worried about losing their jobs who do this. Mums on maternity leave and SAHMs and parents at the weekend will frequently take their disgustingly snotty children to indoor libraries and 45 minute playgroups and couldn’t care less about who they infect. It’s a cultural phenomenon in Britain. A lot of people also mistakenly believe that having a sickly child will lead to them being a healthy adult, which is a lie we tell ourselves so we feel better about subjecting children to months of illness every year.

I was heavily pregnant suffering with severe pelvic girdle pain and sciatica which I needed crutches for! I was not safe to look after a 2 year old so if he wasn’t ill then I’m sending him in where he will be looked after. I had to finish work early because of these factors.

My health visitor has also advised to keep him in his normal routine which I agreed with!