Oxford uni (and just unis in general)

[law4569]

Hi all!

Just wanted some advice. My daughter is applying for spanish + beginners German and wants to do a law conversion after. She's decided she wants to apply to Oxford, Edinburgh, ucl, durham and bristol or warwick. I wanted to know people's experiences with these unis as durham and Edinburgh are very far from where we live + warwick we're unsure if it's good for her degree. For anyone whose children went to Oxford, did they do well at gcse? She got 999888777 but she's worried because of the context of her skl (she did okay) then she'll be disadvantaged. if anyone has any sort of experience on any of this id appreciate it :)

My state educated nephew isn’t like that at all and has just been offered a place. Don’t think he does any sport or posh extra curriculars. Very quiet modest type. Don’t think his GCSE’s were all 9s either.

Sigh. They weren't. She was perfectly right not to apply if she didn't think it would suit her. All I am pointing out is that there's no basis whatsoever to think that Oxford contains only whispery, introverted undergraduates permanently glued to their desks.

In fact it seems to have maintained its nightlife and a hugely active clubs/societies scene far more than some other universities. Where I teach now, a popular city-centre university in a vibrant small city, has seen a real downturn in student nightlife and clubs and socs because accommodation is so expensive many students are not commuting by car from a distance daily, which means they go home at night and are not there to club etc.

Definitely this. There’s a lot of focus on literature, society, culture and history alongside language in MFL degrees at top unis so you need to have a deep interest and aptitude for these.

So is Oxford really DD’s dream? Even if it is, is it a good choice for her?

This.

I remember listening to an indignant parent whose daughter hadn't got into Oxford to read MFL...when she had been brought up to be bilingual. The mum thought that fluency in the language was all that was required.

No! As pps have said, it's about analysing literature and also (at Cambridge, anyway), there's an element of Linguistics, a subject which is not a walk in the park by any means.

If you could just get in by being excellent at the language, all native speakers could get a place!

OP, focusing on the DS from another thread is not helpful. I suspect that he shone at interview and the admissions tutors decided he was a good fit for the rather brutal teaching modality. He may also have had highly developed supercurriculars, special circumstances around his exams, etc. Or other unusual factors we don’t know about.

The MLAT will be a significant factor. Of course everyone does not go into interview on an equal footing, because some are clearly more qualified overall. But everyone invited to interview is of a standard which means that with a good enough interview, they could receive an offer.

Are you considering whether DD is a good fit for Oxford? The interview will reveal that even many very strong applicants are not suited to the tutorial system.

My DD applied to several of the universities on your list (yours or your DC's?), including Oxford. She got an interview with simialr GCSE grades and A Level predictions but ultimately not an offer, and she was fine - I would say the vast majority of Oxbridge applicants are excellent students, but they can only accept the number they can house. She's now approaching her final year at Durham, and not sure what her next steps will be, so I'd say at least your DD has an idea of a career path.

Please don't write off Unis that are 'too far' because she WILL be homesick. TBH, no Uni will work for her if that's predetermined (especially one that requires a year abroad!). She should go and visit as many as she can and listen to what they have to say and review the stats. That's the best way of working out what she wants to do next.

My DS has recently graduated from Oxford. He was state educated and is an extrovert. As PP have said, the workload is significantly higher there than at most other universities and tutorials are intense.
He was advised to show at interview that he lived for his subject! He obviously didn’t actually live for his subject but the interview was all about how he could evidence that and analyse material on the spot. He was genuinely fascinated by his subject and loved the intensity of Oxford. He is also someone who seems to thrive on challenge.
All my DC went to different university open days with friends. My DD completely changed her preferences based on her visits. She hated Oxford but absolutely loved Exeter, which she hadn’t really taken seriously before her visit. She is glad that she made that choice and has said that she wouldn’t have wanted her brother’s workload. Your DD should look at the ones she’s interested in and go from there.
If she then decides that she really wants to take a shot at Oxford, then she should. I think it’s a bit of a lottery however amazing your grades are, because everyone applying will have excellent grades anyway.
I would be concerned about you thinking that she might be homesick because, as other have said, the intensity of her workload will mean it is unlikely she can visit often, even if you are near by.
As others have said, the way Oxford teaches MFL is different to the approach of many other places so she should consider if this interests her.
Whilst it is great that you are clearly very supportive of her, it is important that she makes and owns these decisions.
Good luck to her.

Just throwing into the mix that there are fewer and fewer legal roles available, particularly if she decides she wants to be a solicitor rather than a barrister. There is an enormous advantage to being at university in London and being able to attend the evening networking events. Training contracts are like gold dust and every year it will get worse and worse. Practically all law firms now have Harvey or their own proprietary legal AI and as such the tasks carried out by trainees are reducing/gone. As a lawyer from a legal family with various family members at different stages I would never encourage any child into law now. It's horrendously expensive and horribly competitive and the likelihood is the majority of law graduates will not get a job as a solicitor/barrister since the jobs simply won't be there - particularly in seven years time when a current year 12 would be starting a training contract (year 13 4 years of uni if doing MFL, then two years of law school).

It's a bit like encouraging a child to become a DVD manufacturer.

I'm going to irritate pps by telling a silly story about my son (or a story about my silly son). He's the living example of a clever boy who has no common sense.

He went on a visit to Oxford from his state school (for those interested in applying there). They lost track of time but he and another lad decided they'd look around a particular college. Unfortunately the porter was just about to close up. They begged to be allowed to look at the library and he very kindly let them through. When they got to the Library they told the Librarian that they were interested in coming to the college. She invited them in and asked 'And what are you hoping to read'?, to which my son replied 'Oh no, we don't want to read anything, we just want to look around the Library'.

Stupid boy. He ended up at Cambridge though and he did work very hard and enjoyed it.

You do realise that a languages degree requires a year abroad?

I think English literature is much much more competitive to be honest. I think if she had performed really well in all aspects the other people must've just done better - as surely if her interview was in the top bunch she would've gotten an offer. It's unlikely they would've rejected because of 9x9s... many people from private school have gotten a couple of 7s with straight 9s and have managed it

Thank you! She would just prefer to come home every weekend. Also which degree did your daughter apply for

yes it is her dream + yes it is

how come she didn't get in? was it because she didn't like literature?

I know the mum personally as well! No he didn't have extenuating circumstances.... his teacher even said his grades weren't good enough and he even resat a few just to go from a 7 to an 8 and go from a 5 to a 6... His supercurriculars weren't great either - he only mentioned texts he had studied in class. Clearly the interview is what got him in from my view but I might be wrong. I don't think its unusual - especially for languages which involve natural aptitude as well as revision - to prioritise interview performance rather than past performance

If you had just said this at the beginning there would have been no need for any of this thread. Oxford want students who will participate fully in college life, and going home every weekend is the opposite of that. It is not for her and she is not for them.

Edinburgh is an awesome city with a nice mix of people from different backgrounds. But the university is increasingly woke and run by the pink haired brigade. Not sure if this will diminish the education or not and is likely a problem for all of these institutions.

Am also wondering how you are squaring a degree with a year abroad with wanting to be home every weekend. I was very, very independent but still found my year abroad tough…

So why all the worry then?
Your daughter applies.
She gets in or she doesn't.

Most of the courses (including MFL) also require an aptitude exam and submission of work before the interview stage.

I’m not sure Oxford use MLAT. They don’t mention it on the faculty web page. I think they set their own tests.

Yes they do their own. I just wanted to mention that there are a few stages.

No one can tell you if your daughter will get an offer or not. If she wants to go to Oxford, she should apply and put herself through the process and see what happens. All the stuff you and others have said - her (for Oxford!) lower GCSE scores in relevant subjects may count against her in a strong field; MFLs are one of the less competitive subjects to get offers for. No one can say how all of that will pan out, or how she will do in the interview if she gets one. As others have said, she could contact the college(s) she is interested in and ask if her GCSE results would likely mean she wouldn't make the cut. No one here can tell you anything other than the published previous admissions statistics and anecdotal experience.

As others have said, if you're applying to Oxbridge (or other competitive unis, especially for competitive courses), it is a good idea to have other options you are excited about and would be happy to go to.

As for relevant(ish) anecdotes, here are mine:
Nephew has an offer to do MFL at Oxford. He got 9s in all GCSEs apart from an 8 in History (state school). His best friend had slightly worse GSCEs (couple of 8s, one 7, I can't remember what in) and didn't get an offer.
DD is a second year medic at Oxford. (She is pretty exceptional academically, even in the exceptional academic field she is in now and got top scores in all her GCSEs and A Levels.) She works hard, but also has a lot of fun - plays sports, goes out drinking, goes to London for gigs and football. What she doesn't ever do is come home in term-time - we live on the south coast and my nieces who are at Glasgow and York come home more than she does. Having said that, one of her fellow medics goes home to Bristol every weekend, so it can be done. Her friends are a mixed bunch - some extrovert, some less so; some work extremely hard and live and breathe their subjects, others enjoy their subjects but not as much as they enjoy taking the afternoon off and sitting in the pub!
Finally, I did MFL at Oxford (obviously quite a few years ago, but having seen my nephew's reading list it hasn't changed all that much!). It is very heavy on literature and I would advise anyone considering MFL at Oxbridge to have an honest think about if the course is for them. I loved it, but there were definitely people who really didn't!

I’m not sure that’s necessarily true. Not living at home is a British thing and more students are going to start needing to live at home due to cost. Oxbridge wants state educated students and to widen its demographic, the numbers that need to live at home or work are going to increase and there would be uproar if they turned away students who needed to live at home for whatever reason. Some students with disabilities might need to live at home too.