Oxford uni (and just unis in general)

[law4569]

Hi all!

Just wanted some advice. My daughter is applying for spanish + beginners German and wants to do a law conversion after. She's decided she wants to apply to Oxford, Edinburgh, ucl, durham and bristol or warwick. I wanted to know people's experiences with these unis as durham and Edinburgh are very far from where we live + warwick we're unsure if it's good for her degree. For anyone whose children went to Oxford, did they do well at gcse? She got 999888777 but she's worried because of the context of her skl (she did okay) then she'll be disadvantaged. if anyone has any sort of experience on any of this id appreciate it :)

The GCSE grades aren't dynamite in the context of private and selective schools (they'd be more impressive for non-selective state, but are still good), but ML is one of the less competitive subjects these days so worth a shot as long as her predicted grades for A level meet the entry requirements. Include a proper insurance choice among the 5 and have a punt on Oxford too, then have 3 solid options in the middle. She'll have a good chance with ML, but got to keep the law conversion in mind which will be more competitive for a decent place that will open doors for her future career.

If you can get to Stevenage reasonably quickly, Edinburgh is only 4 hours away on the direct trains.

I don’t know about Oxford but all the other unis you have mentioned are £££ for accommodation. If she’s doing languages she is unlikely to have many contact hours, so a part time job is an option.

school! sorry my DD keeps using slang in all our texts -.

really? even for modern languages? I thought 6a*S and 3a's would be fine.

really? how come? If the 9s are in 3 languages and she currently takes English literature and is getting a*s. would 3 sevens really damage it that much?

Yes, 4 years ago. Maybe not now. I don't have a child applying now.

My DC is at Cambridge and has a fair few friends at Oxford.

The GCSE results are one part of an equation that also includes A-level predictions, submitted work or exams if their course asks for those, personal statement and performance at interview (if they get one). If a candidate has a very high set of predictions and dazzles when interviewed about their subject, a few 7s at GCSE won't count against her. I've heard anecdotally that Oxford 'cares' more about GCSEs than Cambridge as part of the equation, though.

Remember they also look at GCSEs in context of where they're coming from. You said she went to a private school - bluntly those results wouldn't be seen as fantastic if she was coming out of say, Westminster - but if she's one of the best in her year then that looks a bit better.

Contrary to advice up thread, you can almost forget about the value of extra -curricular for Oxbridge (DofE, orchestra, sports, etc). They want to see “super-curricular” which demonstrates the applicant’s genuine interest in their subject, an ability to self guide learning and investigation and an ability to form their own opinion on the subject outside what is taught in schools.

Lots of Oxbridge colleges give good advice on super-curriculars on their Instagram feeds, plus there’s advice on the admissions section of the website.
It’s not too late to develop a super-curricular but your daughter should really use this summer break to do this if she’s to get through to interview.

I can’t comment on ML, but my son got similar grades at GCSE, albeit from a state school, and he is currently at Oxford reading physics. We found the process fairly standardised to be honest – it seemed as though they took your GCSE grades, any contextual data, your performance in the entrance exam – don’t think there is one for ML – and your performance at interview, put it all together, crunched the numbers and took the first 200 candidates or whatever. If if it’s similar with ML, her GCSE grades will therefore just be one of many factors influencing their decision. As others have said it’s not nearly as competitive a subject as others and if she is truly a keen linguist that will shine through so I say you have nothing to lose by trying.

her school is quite good, I think she did okay for it. she goes grammar school now. she's just worried the fact that the 7s are in English and history are going to affect her

The data is out there on various sites. If I'm reading this right, the average GCSE grades for modern languages are: six 9s, two 8s and two 7s.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/average_grade_of_gsce_applicants_2

Further info from a quick google, with refs from sites like Somerville College:
'Successful Oxford applicants typically hold an average of eight to nine GCSEs at grades 8 or 9 (the equivalent of an (A^{})). However, Oxford does not set a minimum requirement, and admissions tutors evaluate grades in context* using data about the applicant's school and background. 1, 2]
While the baseline for admitted students is incredibly high, the exact average depends heavily on the specific course and stage of the application: 1, 2, 3, 4]
All Applicants: Generally hold an average of about 6.8 GCSEs at grades 8/9/A*.
Shortlisted Candidates: Tutors generally look for an average of 7.8 to 8.2 GCSEs at grades 8/9/A*.
Offer Holders: Successful candidates often present 9 to 9.6 GCSEs at grades 8/9/A*. 1, 2]'

So her grades aren't the strongest, which is no shade given that this is of the most competitive unis in the world so she's going up against the brightest kids, but they're still within the realms of giving it a shot esp with impressive super-curriculars on her statement, great reference and a good interview if she's gets one.

I don’t know re grades. My dd (rural state comp) had 14 grade 9s at GCSE and all A stars at A level. She went to Oxford for undergrad and post grad.
The thing with Oxford is that you can have very good grades and not get a place, everyone has good grades. The interview is the most important thing, they look for a very particular type of person. They don’t care at all about extra curricular stuff, only things that are course relevant.
It is an extremely pressured and intense environment, and the pace doesn’t suit everyone. My dd had an essay every few days with a ten book reading list on average for each essay. It’s a huge amount of work compared to the weekly workload at other good universities. She was often exhausted, burnt out and very stressed.
Go and look at some colleges, but remember that they all look beautiful and it is in many ways an incredible place, but it does also have its drawbacks.

MFL is less competitive than most subjects at Oxford. In the last 3 years 92% of MFL applicants were invited to interview:

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/course-listing/modern-languages

So don't be put off by overall GCSE stats.

Wowzer! Those grades 😍

noting it's only part of the story and not wanting to knock anyone's ambition..

Just as an statement of fact in 2023 and 2024 average GCSE grades for a student receiving an Oxford offer for Modern Lang. were 7x9, 2x8 and 2x7. This is public information so you can find it and analyse it as you wish.

I have rounded the figures, which is why you get 11 rather than the standard 10 gcse. I note your daughter has 9, I don't know if that is significant, probably not.

as I said initially, it's far from the full picture, but it's worth knowing - these are elite institutions after all. Good luck with it all.

Sorry to hear about your dd's experience. With the benefit of hindsight does she wish she'd gone elsewhere or not?

They will imo. But the only thing you can do is try

And remember, The intensity isn't for everyone.

Can you take your daughter to visit them?

I 100% agree @Screamingabdabz but there are so many more people than us on here who go "ooooh! forum police!" etc

Hundreds of not more users just want "Mumsnet" to be "AIBU' and the two to be synonymous, because "traffic".

Thank you! yes from the modern language bit it seems that its exactly what u said 6x9s,2x8s and 2x7s on average. so hers would be bit below avg (especially in English literature language and history!). I saw on another post though that someone's DD got in with 999988877 (English lang) 5 from a top priv skl in London. Whilst it's true that he did get an 8 in lit , he still got a 7 in English language and a 5 isn't very impressive from a top 10 private school. I really don't understand the admissions process and I wonder if maybe his grades reflect that DD still has some sort of chance - especially if she maybe demonstrates an improvement in English . she honestly just messed up the exams at the time.

It’s less competetive to get into Oxbridge to do Modern Languages than other most other subjects so her GCSE grades themselves (while absolutely stellar in the normal run of things) will be OK for Oxbridge (though they will be lower than many applicant’s) As the first poster says a lot will depend on her interview. The best advice my DD got was to put an aspirational choice on her application - LSE in her case - her GCSEs were less strong than average applicants there but she got in, I think very strong super curriculars (state non selective school) helped her application stand out. She also did an EPQ in an area close to the subject she had applied to study. If your DD has a passion for her subject, can show real depth of interest and committment then she should absolutely go for it. What has she got to lose?

really?

If she is doing the law conversion, Oxford is the place to have on her CV. Oxbridge is still the go to for solicitor and Barrister training contracts and pupillage.

do you think UCL can also offer the same opportunities? or which other unis.

She certainly has a chance, esp if she's got great predicted grades and delivers on them. As she's at a grammar that presumably likes its students to try for Oxbridge, she can always talk to them about her application and get their insights and support, but there's also a ton of info out there, youtubes and such, plus the unis own wealth of info, and the general sense is to have a crack at it if you meet the entry requirements, because otherwise you have no chance at all.

(For all the transparency around admissions these days, a cynical part of me wonders about the top private school applicant you mention and whether there was any history/relationship/contact that may have smoothed the path there. I know families whose kids have all got into Oxbridge from such schools and the parents went there too, and it does seem like calls have been made in the past, but perhaps that's impossible now. People like to say it's gone the other way and they're harder on private school applicants now, but I don't know. That's another thread and probably been done to death. Good luck to your DD regardless!)