Oxford uni (and just unis in general)

[law4569]

Hi all!

Just wanted some advice. My daughter is applying for spanish + beginners German and wants to do a law conversion after. She's decided she wants to apply to Oxford, Edinburgh, ucl, durham and bristol or warwick. I wanted to know people's experiences with these unis as durham and Edinburgh are very far from where we live + warwick we're unsure if it's good for her degree. For anyone whose children went to Oxford, did they do well at gcse? She got 999888777 but she's worried because of the context of her skl (she did okay) then she'll be disadvantaged. if anyone has any sort of experience on any of this id appreciate it :)

Absolutely the intensity isn't for everyone

@law4569 Nottingham has a good reputation for the conversion course or York.

When my daughter was applying, we were told that Oxbridge expected students to outperform the average student at their school. How do your daughter’s results compare with those of her classmates? If the average at her school is 10 x 8/9 grades, then she is doing less well than the average and is less likely to get an offer. Things may have changed since my daughter applied of course (she’s now 28).

More generally, I can’t help think you are overthinking this a bit, OP. Your daughter should go to an Oxford open day, and - assuming she likes it - she should apply.

No one knows whether she is likely to get in but one thing is certain: she won’t get in if she doesn’t apply!

She has decent GCSE results and, given that’s she applying for MFL, she will probably get an interview. The only thing she has to lose is one out of five options and with the GCSE results (and again because it is MFL) she is likely to receive offers from just about any other university (assuming she has the predicted grades she needs of course).

I'm a uni lecturer in Humanities, not Oxbridge. If she's predicted 3A*s I'd certainly give Oxford a shot. Languages applications are down so much that even Oxbridge are worried about getting good candidates. She's got nothing to lose when even Russel Group unis will probably have languages places available in clearing.

Warwick is good for languages.

A lot of state schools do this now. Quite a few have an Oxbridge class for children who want to apply. They are given help with interviews and entrance tests. Given that around 94% of children go to state school, many parents who send their children to state schools are quite well off and can also afford to pay for a tutor to help with this.

Contextual offers are specific to each university and they are aware that state schools are not all created equal. Unless your daughter goes to a state school listed by the university as being in a disadvantaged area then don't rely on being at state school to help much with her application/offer. Some take into account being on free school meals or being a carer.

I went to Oxbridge and had a lot of friends doing MLs.

TBH I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The GCSE grades themselves aren’t the issue - it’s whether you think Oxford is right for your daughter. As PPs have said it is extremely intense. Do you think your DD could handle it? It is quite a specific way of studying a language - you don’t get much support to learn the language itself, you are expected to get on with that, the focus is on the literature, history of the country/language you are studying. So if your DD struggled to get top grades in English and History at GCSE I’d really think about whether this is the right ML course for her.

Definitely not saying your DD shouldn’t apply, but you and she need to understand what it is like to do the Oxford ML course, it is def not for everyone!

My son did a STEM degree at Oxford, graduated a few years ago now.
The workload at Oxbridge really is unlike anywhere else - partly because of the very short terms and also due to the tutorial system where there is a lot of 1:1 or 1:2 time. The style of teaching isn't for everyone - tutorials can be very exposing. DS was expected to have completed his problem sheets prior to tutorials and these would be analysed in detail. I think it's part of the reason Oxbridge interview candidates - to see if the tutorial style suits them.
DS reckoned he put in a 50-60 hour week most weeks - he had around 12 hrs of lectures, 4 hrs tutorials and then the relentless problem sheets (which would be essays for humanities).
There is a lot of information on line about admissions processes - essentially Cambridge care less about GCSE's, Oxford look at them in the context of the schools results. Then the results are weighted, combined with entrance exam score and interview performance before a decision made.
She should definitely give it a go if that's what she wants but a good idea to go in with eyes open. DS loved his time there and said it was a privilege to be around so many really bright people (who are of course also found at other universities!).
For context, he achieved 10 x 9 and 2 x 8 from a very average state comprehensive

My ds graduated from Warwick five years ago (not MFL) and campus accommodation was considerably cheaper than some other unis - dd is at Bath which is £££. Living in Coventry, rather than Leamington Spa, is also pretty reasonable. Proximity to Birmingham is good for nightlife etc.
Pastoral care at Warwick not that great in ds’s opinion, much better at Bath.

Yes she didn't outperform but in fairness, for mml many people who get in to Oxford don't either

Thank you for your message. She hated history and English she messed up. For a level she is doing extremely well in English and is predicted to get nearly full marks in her coursework - I just hope how she did 2 years ago really isnt that important . Although everyone here really thinks it is which is a bit worrying.

Just to focus away form Oxford and on to another query you had, Warwick has an extremely good reputation for languages.

Thank you for your message. That's pretty much what I was wondering - whether she has a chance after interview at an offer or whether they'll care that much about the 7s to not consider her post interview. He applied for French - in honesty, his mlat was a bit below average, gcse's were 999988877(7?)5 and around 90 boys in his year got 7 nines or more apparently. His mum said he wasn't particularly good at French either (not fluent or a genius). From what I can see, I think there's a shortage in mml applicants and they're maybe a bit more lenient now - especially considering his 7 was also in English language. I think his interview must've just been really good as his personal statement as well was apparently really bad (he applied for French / econ everywhere else.. + used ai for the French bit...

really? that's good to know! DD was worried about prospects

I went to Cambridge for my undergrad and am now a researcher at Oxford (humanities but not languages). Firstly, congrats to your DD, they’re some excellent grades! She should be very proud of them, and they put her in a really good place for applying to her choice of unis.

I went to a very good state school which sent a handful of students to Oxbridge each year, I got very similar grades to your DD. I really think she should apply to Oxford if she would like to go. Her GCSE grades are only part of her application - they’re considered alongside her personal statement and super-curriculars, entrance exam (if there is one) and interview (if she gets to that stage). From my experience, they’re a perfectly normal set of grades for an Oxbridge undergrad to have.

Oxbridge don’t care about extra-curriculars (i.e DofE, sports, music) if they’re unrelated to your course. Yes you should have a small paragraph on your personal statement about them, to show you have skills other than being good academically, but just doing your normal weekly after-school clubs or learning an instrument at any level and writing about how this taught you teamwork, organisation, resilience, perseverance etc. is perfectly fine.

What Oxbridge do care about is super-curriculars. These are things you’ve done related to your course. If your DD writes strongly about a range of relevant super-curriculars she has done in her personal statement, showing her passion for her subject and how she’s engaged with it above and beyond her school classes, she’ll have a strong application paired with her GCSE grades. If her super-curricular offering is rather lukewarm, combined with her GCSE grades, she will be amongst a pool of far more convincing applicants.

She can’t do anything about her GCSE grades now other than apply and hope for the best, so there’s no point in worrying about them (although easier to say than do obviously). What she can do over the summer is develop her super-curriculars. A non-exhaustive list of (free!) ones which, when written about well, Oxford would be interested in is: critical review comments on books she’s read / films & documentaries she’s watched in her target language, attending public university lectures (in person or online) about topics related to her course, writing about aspects of online courses she’s taken (look at MOOC courses), volunteering work relating to translation or supporting people speaking her target languages, helping out at school language lessons or language clubs. If you have the finances to pay for language schools, visits to countries which speak those languages etc. these are also options but not necessary.

If your DD shows passion for these, with her GCSE grades, I think she will be a strong applicant to Oxford. Wishing her the best of luck and I hope she applies!

Thank you so much! yes there is no point in worrying about gcse grades since they cannot be changed! I suppose she just wanted to know whether a good interview means she can get an offer or whether her gcse grades will disadvantage her heavily. I feel like she wouldn't overthink them if the 7s were in unrelated subjects but since they're in English/history , naturally she's a bit worried that they'll look bad compared to everyone else. Her personal statement apparently is excellent and her predicted grades/mock grades as well. She's won a couple of commendations from Oxford as well. I think it really is her gcses that she's convinced will stop her

My daughter is currently at Oxford studying a language and a humanities.
The interview seemed much more important than gcse grades in my opinion, although she got 9999988888 from a low achieving comp.
She needed AAA in A levels and got Astar AStar B, with the B actually being in the language so actually missed the offer. They wrote her a lovely email saying her interview was so impressive they wanted her.
I would say apply and if get interview then try really hard to impress. Good Luck

Some of my 7s/8s were in my other humanities subjects, which were relevant to the subject I applied for and had the same examination style. However, I got a 9 in the humanities subject I was applying for. Apparently they didn’t find this to be a problem as they offered me a place. This seems to be the same situation your DD is in, she has 9s in her languages yes?

I find it very hard to imagine Oxford offer interviews to people that, if they then gave a strong interview performance, they wouldn’t offer a place to. What would be the point of that? Even with the falling numbers of languages students, Oxford is hardly needing to recruit random people off the street to put bums on seats. If they give your DD an interview, it’s because they think she’s a strong applicant and they’re interested to hear more from her and potentially offer her a place.

If your DD is offered an interview, she needs to seize the chance and run with it - prepare well, be confident, and tell herself that she’s just as good and wanted as anyone else in the interviews.

Good post, particularly on there being little hands-on help with learning the actual language/s. The OP’s DD should look very carefully at the specifics of the course content for all the institutions she’s considering AND arrangements, extra costs, bursaries, institutional links with overseas institutions — obviously getting back into Erasmus is on the cards from 2027, but it’s not necessarily going to be back to the pre-Brexit model.

No, not now, but there were times during the second year in particular when I half-wished she had gone somewhere else. I think many things about Oxford do suit her, but it was so hard when she got ill, which she did quite a bit, as no time at all to catch up. And the pressure is intense all the time.
I think a Masters suits her better than Undergrad, and DPhil will suit her more than Masters, just to do with the way she is.

Ah that’s so kind thank you. I am especially proud as she did that with some huge challenges. She is brilliant but she hasn’t had an easy time.

Thank you! so if she gets an interview, then is it like she has a good enough chance as every1 else to get an offer? yes she got 9s in French, German and spanish and the 7s were in history + English although she does English for a level now

Honestly @law4569, don’t let this stress over grades drop her from giving it a go (if that’s what she wants).
Make sure she has strong super curriculars and has prepped for the interview. An Oxford interview isn’t like a typical Uni interview. They really want to test how you think, so will ask questions that are often really left-field - some of which don’t even have a “right” answer. They want to see how the applicant can apply wider subject and contextual knowledge to an unfamiliar topic.

Someone with strong super curriculars who can demonstrate in depth knowledge/interest will almost always get an interview ahead of someone with stronger grades but poor demonstration of their independent learning/thinking.

The grades won’t block her success if she does well in the other elements. They’re looking to test whether someone is a good fit to their teaching style and academic approach which, as others have noted, is different to other Russell Group unis and doesn’t suit everyone, no matter how smart they are.

We were told by DD’s academic independent school that Oxbridge tend to look at results, including GCSE’s, in the context of where they were achieved, so for an academic school, they would be looking for straight 9’s or mainly 9’s but it does depend on the subject a little i think.

Thank you! so do you reckon a good interview can lead to offer despite grades?

For goodness sake, nowhere in mainland UK is too far to visit when you are talking about making a big decision about your future.