Splitting up friends in different classes

[doosesmarket]

NC - work in a primary school

AIBU to say that if your child has been split from their friend when moving to their new classes that there is probably a reason this has been done?

Class lists went out yesterday morning and by afternoon we already had lots of messages about children being put into different classes to their friends. One of the children’s parents who was the most upset was complaining her child X wouldn’t be with his friend Y. X and Y are lovely children but together think they are a law unto themselves, do not listen, always off doing something they shouldn’t and have encouraged poor choices and behaviour in each other all term.

A and Bs parents are gobsmacked we have split them up. Both parents are best friends and expect A and B to be best friends too. Except A actually displays bullying behaviour to B constantly, does not allow B to make their own choices and bosses B around to do what A wants to do. B desperately needs space to be their own person.

They have playtime and lunch together and can see each other then. The classroom is for learning so being with their friends is neither here nor there.

It is very frustrating that parents think we are being so horrible by splitting up friends when in fact it is done for the children’s benefit so they can concentrate on learning without distraction or to provide them with a different environment that will benefit them!

Have you told them all
those truths?

This is obviously the best decision for the kids.

Explain that to the parents then. If the kids don't behave that way out of school then there's no way for them to know.

My child got separated from all of her friends one year, and when I queried it, it turned out to just be a mistake and was rectified very quickly. So it's fair enough that they're asking.

Yep, I hear you. I work in a Primary School & we have exactly the same issue. We explain fully to the parents but every single year we get angry demands & complaints, telling us we’ve traumatised their child. (The same parents who don’t engage with school the rest of the year, never read with their children, etc.) 🙄

I think schools need to communicate that information.
Not necessarily to individual parents but a generic statement.

Classes are set by reading/maths groups,
We need a balance of abilities and personality types in each class.
Occassionally if a friendship is too intense it's better for children to be separated to encourage them to widen their social circle and improve their social skills.

Sometimes there is a good reason yes.

Sometimes schools are thoughtless, or out of date on who’s friends with who, or have prioritised allocating the more tricky kids and then the easier kids just get slotted in to fit without really thinking about their needs.

I used to think there was always a good reason but after experience with my kids I have learned there isn’t always.

We’re simply not allowed to be that honest. If you don’t work in a school you’d be surprised how much is put on us to keep the parents happy. Unless behaviour is a dramatically increased issue that needs a parent to come in, we’re not able to really express poor behaviour as parents often are very defensive. It then falls on us from higher up when parents complain about how we’ve upset them.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Prioritising the ‘tricky kids’ allocations is done so that they’re distributed fairly and with the appropriate classroom support. Therefore benefitting all the children so that disturbances can be managed and there’s not one class where the other children suffer because of disruption.

That seems like a school that's got its priorities wrong - not all schools are like that. I'd be aghast if my child had been bullied or bullying others and nobody was prepared to tell me.

It’s worse when they move to secondary school.

Our local primary schools are 1-2 forms per year. The secondary is 13 form per year

The brightest idea from the secondary school was to rip all the kids from their friendship groups and the kids are lucky if they know 2 other people in their new class of 30.

It’s madness. It’s a huge change and they take away absolutely everything familiar for the kids.

Then wonder why the kids take until year 8 to settle.

I think it mostly comes from the parents thinking they know better than the school and those that shout loudest often get their own way (even if it’s then portrayed as a ‘mistake’ by the school to stop other parents going on). My children have sometimes been with their friends, sometimes not but they have made other friends, played at break time with friends across classes and been fine but we have always supported finding ways to manage disappointment or whatever. We all know the parents who go in shouting and screaming about classroom allocations (pains in the backside regardless). Some schools give in because they get ground done by it and have neither the time nor the resource so handle the endless back and forth and some schools hold firm. Regardless parents should support it and help the child to deal with it. Christ knows how little Johnny will cope in later life if he can’t cope when not in the same room as a friend for work within the classroom,

From your update you have a school problem. The school I work at actively do communicate this to the parents, and to be fair when it is explained in a factual - leaving out the emotion of it most parents are understanding.
Difficult conversations should never be shied away from just because the school is scared of upsetting the parents. That’s not taking the children’s best interests to heart.

I’m sure some parents are being difficult. But it’s simply not correct that schools always get this right and parents should never query it. My DD was placed in a class without any of her close friends last year and was devastated. We (politely) spoke to the school, and it turns out they had not realised who she was friends with and had thought she was close to a girl she isn’t friends with. There was also definitely an element of “classroom management” i.e. she is an easy child and was placed in a class of much less easy children because they assumed she’d be fine. Our daughter is (according to the school) extremely bright, helpful, and hard working. But they failed to realise that she is also sensitive, but not demonstrative. If unhappy she doesn’t cry or shout, she just goes off on her own. They thought that meant she was fine. For the first time in her schooling, last year she started saying she did not want to go to school and become unhappy. Sometimes bursting into tears at the weekend about it (not like her at all) and not wanting to go in on Mondays. Even the school (to their credit) now accept they made a mistake. But the next set of changes don’t happen until next year so we have another year of her being in a class which makes her feel unhappy and is beginning to affect her engagement.

It’s easy to say that they can play together at break and lunchtimes but at primary school age, shared experiences are what bond them, and her closest friends are in a class together and so she is beginning to feel excluded and it is making her lonely.

Schools don’t always know best although I am sure they do sometimes. But talk to parents first! If you don’t tell the parents why you are making the changes, then of course they will raise concerns. If the school had told us in advance of settling the classes who they thought she was friends with and we could have told them they had made a mistake, then we could dealt with it then and prevented 2 years of upset.

Do you seriously think that is why they take until Y8 to settle? I have no words for this post. Teach your child how to make some new friends - surely if they are all split up then they are all in the same boat. If your child struggles to settle then that’s one thing and you need to help them manage that but blaming the school because they don’t just stick them in a class with all their primary chums is ridiculous. Friendships change in secondary and children need to be given the opportunity to grow and make new friends (whilst retaining those they want to retain(.

This is a much better idea than keeping larger groups together.

(and the same happened to me as a child and it was absolutely fine)

As someone who was once responsible for form allocation in a secondary school, I can tell you that it took hours and hours of after school time to ensure that each form got a mix of ability, friendship group and all the other minutiae that constitute a form group.

We asked the pupils for three names of others they wanted to be with and promised at least one. We took advice from year 6 teachers and if a parent had an overwhelming need for their child to be with, or separated from someone, we did that too.

We were always prepared to acknowledge, after a few weeks, if a particular grouping wasn’t working, but it’s a bit like dominoes. You move one and the whole lot tumbles.

So you’re wrong @Iwrotethelyricstoaxlf to suggest that it’s done ‘to rip the kids from their friendship groups’. At least in the school I was at.

I think it must be very difficult to be a teacher, with you every decision questioned.

The reason is often just wanting to mix the classes up and encourage new friendships though, rather than anything negative about existing friendships?

Several times my DD has ended a year in a friendship group of 4. Every time they are split into 2 groups of 2 for the class reshuffle. Sometimes she ends up back with one of the children she's been split from a year later.

I don't see why that should be a problem as long as the questioning is polite. I have to justify every decision I make at work. I think the only bit that's 100% wrong is that they shouldn't be doing it on their own time.

If the school "portrays" it as a mistake then that's what the parent will understand. If everyone was just straight with each other then we could actually get somewhere, surely?

Parents are weird.
Plus, children will make some new friends as well as learn better (hopefully). Win win.

The last two years I’ve taught a year group that gets mixed at the end and a parent has quietly asked for their child NOT to be with their friend. Then the parent of the other child laments when the list comes out.

Both times I would have been inclined to separate anyway. It’s interesting that the other parent in the friendship couldn’t see what was so obvious to the other parents and teacher.

Oh I’ve no problem with that, it makes perfect sense. I just sometimes feel that 95% of the time is spent on this and only 5% on allocating the non tricky kids as “they will be fine anywhere”.

I wonder how many decisions you make in a day at work?

My colleague and I tried to count once and I gave up at 40 at some point before morning break (1hr 20).