AIBU to still feel unsafe and want to tell someone?

[Puffinsandcoffee]

My husband has done some things to me /around me in recent years that weren't great. Nothing really terrible - not hitting or SA - but stuff that has made me definitely a bit scared of him.

It's been well over a year since he's done anything like that.

I just have two questions I thought maybe someone on here would have experience of this stuff and could answer.

One is, when did you find that you felt safe and comfortable around your husband again? Is it normal that I don't? Every time he swears or slams a door or something I get scared, and then scared he'll notice I'm scared, because he would get annoyed by that because he just wants us to move on from the stuff that happened. The world cup is stressing me out because he keeps jolting out of his chair and shouting and swearing at the TV!

The other question is, is it really vindictive that I want to tell someone in real life? I obviously won't. He'd be so hurt and really angry, because it's such an injustice to who he is in general. But there was total secrecy in my family about my dad's additions and abuses and I think because of that, having to not tell anyone about the stuff my husband has done is making me feel worse, like as if it's all happening again even though it's not.

Just to pre-empt some stuff that might come up

• I have posted about this stuff before. I spoke to Women's Aid because of replies. I don't mind my other posts being referred to but please don't "catch me out" with stuff from them. Mumsnet is the only place I can have these "conversations" and I'm not trying to be defensive or in denial or anything like that.
• I am getting therapy for cPTSD which I have from other stuff mostly childhood stuff.
• I haven't gone into detail about what he did because I don't think it's relevant but I will if it is.
• I won't be leaving him. I can't even if I wanted to but I don't want to.

I didn't put a poll as it's not really an either/ or but just - is this all normal and will pass, or am I damaging my relationship by not moving on from it?

I don't mean harming them by staying with him. I mean harming them because of who I am. I've had a lot of therapy. I'm on a waiting list for EMDR too, but no idea when that'll happen. I am prepared to do plenty, I'd do anything that I was sure wouldn't do more harm than good, but I can't leave my husband.

Why do you think you can't leave?

I understand this as a DV survivor. My ex did try to kill me and is in prison for a very long time. I'm now remarried and my husband is a lovely gentle soul but he once jumped up during an argument to leave the room, didn't come anywhere near me but I still flinched instinctively.

I can totally understand this, but did your DH then shout at you for being frightened and break down a door to get into you?

Of course the past trauma will add to the fear, but that’s why a Pp has said that this should make him more considerate and careful with displaying anger. Instead he seems to be using it as a means to control.

Please,
lead @Puffinsandcoffee read the last 3 sentences of your post a few times when you are felling stronger. You are terrified of him and he is making you the villain and telling you you are unfair, why would a good, fair man who loved you do that to you?

You deserve so much more, at he very least not to be made to feel a burden and like this is your fault when it is his choice to use fear and intimidation against you, to control you and make you feel indebted to him.

EMDR is really good for PTSD (I've had it myself, and it was hard work but really worked), but it only helps deal with the irrational emotional trauma response to stimuli. I don't think it would stop you being rationally terrified of terrifying behaviour.

Your update has really confused me. Because you know all along ive been team "wake up".
But now with this update, it sounds like you left him to deal with childcare on a Saturday morning while you stayed in bed, then questioned the value of your relationship him out loud, then when he protested automatically went to the bathroom and locked yourself away, and when he opened the door (concerned about you?) you ducked under the sink.

I dont know, this update makes it suddebly sound like things are less clear cut. I cant tell whether thats your intention in sharing it though

Well of course you won't ever feel better. A lobotomy might help, which is what you're trying to do to yourself through non surgical means. But aside from that your body knows he's violently aggressive and could definitely hurt or kill you and so you will react like this forever or until you have a heart attack or breakdown from the extreme stress of living with a violent abuser and gaslighting yourself.

Yes, exactly. Aside from the bit about childcare (I got up with them while he had a lie in for a few hours, then he took them out for a few hours and I went back to bed), and we wouldn't see it as "dealing with childcare". And I suppose "when he protested" is glossing over shouting and swearing and pacing and stuff, which is all fine of course but has led to worse in the past.

But yeah, I told him I didn't think the relationship was great at the moment, he lost it, and I locked myself in the bathroom once he'd left the room, and was stupidly scared when he came in, even though he didn't do anything.

Like I've said all along, I'm very difficult to live with, and he's helped me a lot. I'm just scared of him. Which actually brings me back to my very first post - will I feel better in time? Am I ruining my relationships by feeling scared? I think maybe you see why I asked this now.

@OneFineDay22 @Keepingthingsinteresting I don't think he's trying to control me, exactly? He lets me see friends whenever I want, and visit family alone (which I very rarely do, just funerals or whatever that we can't get organised for quickly enough for all of us to attend). He doesn't get jealous. I have my own bank account. He actively encourages me to go to hobbies because he says they're really important for my MH, which is true.

I definitely see that he wants to control how we talk about what's happened in the past, but he says that's because it sounds so bad, and would be unfair to him because over the 20 years of our relationship he's done so much for me and put up with so much (the SH, eating disorder, dissociation).

It does feel unfair and also like I'm actually losing my mind sometimes, when he tells me I'm talking about what he did "rhetorically", to hurt him - like, he says of course I can talk about it, but there's never any way I've ever brought it up that doesn't make him really angry. Which - when we're talking about me being scared of him because of how he sometimes behaves when he's angry, is ... I don't even know. Like, can he not see how unfair that is or even hypocritical or - can he not see that he's completely in charge now?

Am I ruining my relationships by feeling scared?

No. I think you're having a normal and rational response to a threat.

Will I feel better in time?

Not while you remain with the threat. You would basically be asking your body to 'stand down' from being ready to survive a person and a situation that it perceives as dangerous while that person and situation still remains in the danger zone (in your home with you).

Thank you for replying. I don't know if you read @NowWotsit posts, but I think the gist of her last post was that actually it does sound like it's my behaviour that's the problem (and she was definitely one of the loudest "leave him" voices up until now).

So I'm having irrational response to his anger, which is coming from past trauma (and which is also making him understandably really angry). Does that make sense? And then, if that's the case, like @nocoolnamesleft said, EMDR would help. Once I get that, everything will be ok again?

Thank you for this really kind reply. Yeah, I think this morning I just wish he'd responded with more gentleness -"I'm really sorry you feel that way. What can we do to make things better?" Instead, it was just all this anger, even though it's the anger that's doing all the harm. All he had to do was be kind to me yesterday. I've told him that too - if he could just be kind, say something nice to me, that would make all the difference. But he only does that after he's lost it with me. Shouting and swearing until I'm terrified, then he buys me some flowers. I really would prefer no shouting and no flowers.

I get that there are nuances and that you feel you are part of the problem but this is how I see it.

When you got into the relationship you were probably already scared of men. In particular anger. You had seen and felt the damage it causes. You were upfront and discussed things with your husband as you became aware of them. This is sensible behaviour which builds and strengthens the relationship. Your husband has tried in some ways to support you. Encouraging activities for your mental health, supporting counselling etc. These are the easy ways though. What he hasn't done is the self reflection and internal changes. He still shouts and swears. This means he scares you retraumatising you every time. He also doesn't like to be reminded of this denying you the ability to process and repair with him.

This puts you in a spiral where theTrauma is being compounded and you can't address it. He NEEDS to understand his part in that for you both to move on.

Many women with trauma can have very successful relationships but their partners need to understand how to avoid reopening the traumas and that if they are accidentally triggered how to deal with it. The second you show any fear response HE HAS TO STOP.

Is it fair, not entirely, but it's not fair that you were traumatised by your childhood. Life isn't fair so stop obsessing on that concept and look at what is necessary.

I think you have a very particular idea on your mind of what it means for a man to be controlling. It doesn’t matter whether he lets you see your friends or family if these things don’t bother him. It doesn’t matter how much he helps you in other ways.

I asked this before but I don’t know if you missed it: you have said that you are careful not to make him angry most of the time. What it is that you are doing in order to be careful?

None of that is ok, he is violent and loses is when angry. You will never feel safe with this man because he is not safe.

The sooner you realise that the better op. Stop minimising it.

100% agreed! The listed behaviour is terrifying.
OP you are massively downplaying this. I have never experienced anything like that and know it would be incredibly frightening.
You do not need to get over this and learn to live with it. I really hope you get real life help and get out.

He is violent and abusive.
You are unable to see the awful reality.
Every single person here is telling you that. There is never a universal response on Mumsnet and yet this is the exception. Everyone is say that this is a terrible situation that you should not be in.
Your children are also living in fear. Please leave for them if you cannot do it for yourself.

Of course he can see it - that's the whole idea behind all of his behaviour. Can you not see that everything he does is deliberately done to keep you frightened and obedient, and him completely in charge? He scares you; you put up and shut up. He knows exactly what he's doing. And then he mixes it with a bit of "look what you made me do" gaslighting. And you fall for it. He's brilliantly skilled at keeping you confused, on edge, making sure you always put his wants first so you don't set him off, thinking you need him to "let" you do things and you should be grateful when he does, thinking that any conflict must be your fault, feeling like you must be mad if you don't accept his script. It's all absolutely textbook.

“Heatwaveconfusion · Today 08:34
I get that there are nuances and that you feel you are part of the problem but this is how I see it.
When you got into the relationship you were probably already scared of men. In particular anger. You had seen and felt the damage it causes. You were upfront and discussed things with your husband as you became aware of them. This is sensible behaviour which builds and strengthens the relationship. Your husband has tried in some ways to support you. Encouraging activities for your mental health, supporting counselling etc. These are the easy ways though. What he hasn't done is the self reflection and internal changes. He still shouts and swears. This means he scares you retraumatising you every time. He also doesn't like to be reminded of this denying you the ability to process and repair with him.
This puts you in a spiral where theTrauma is being compounded and you can't address it. He NEEDS to understand his part in that for you both to move on.
Many women with trauma can have very successful relationships but their partners need to understand how to avoid reopening the traumas and that if they are accidentally triggered how to deal with it. The second you show any fear response HE HAS TO STOP.
Is it fair, not entirely, but it's not fair that you were traumatised by your childhood. Life isn't fair so stop obsessing on that concept and look at what is necessary.”

I think @Heatwaveconfusion has nailed it. This with bells on. There are nuances. It sounds like he’s getting quite a lot right on the parenting front but he’s also getting some very important things terribly wrong.

I’m nearly 60. My parents smacked me a bit growing up and shouted at me a bit growing up. But i was never scared of them - not my dad, not my mum. Never. It had a context and never felt out of control or - in fact - particularly violent. It never left me scared to argue back or stand up for myself.

And there was never blood, guts or gore. It’s true that most men could kill most women bare-handed. But i’m not scared of the men in my life (partner, other relatives, male friends, male colleagues) because i don’t ever see them behave violently and anyway i have no reason to believe they will turn that capability for violence on me. Its not normal or okay to be living in a way which makes you scared of the men around you.

Unfortunately, it sounds like in your social grouping it’s normal for differences to be settled with violence. Therefore you were raised around extreme male violence. And you refer to gore which suggests to me not just bare-handed violence but perhaps also weapons being used. Consequently you have been very deeply traumatised and have CPTSD.

It’s not surprising that you’re scared of men. You say you can and will never divorce. So your husband needs to be able to do better. He needs to be able to hear you on this subject without re-traumatising you. It may also need to be that you choose your timing better as raising this in the middle of a busy day of parenting is never likely to go well. Any partner would likely be pissed off, though they may express it better.

Do you have anyone in the community who could hear you both on this in confidence and supportively? Like a kind of community counselling service? There were big moves in Maori culture some years ago to overcome domestic violence: https://preventfvsv.govt.nz/national-strategy
Could something like this happen in your community?

Sorry I must have missed that question. It's just stuff like, say yesterday, I felt awful, really tired and had bad period pains and was really down, replaying all the worst thoughts and memories I have, thinking about this whole thread and am I ruining my kids lives by staying with him and is he actually dangerous and do I definitely love him. He came in and asked me what was wrong and I told him period pains and a bit down, but he kept asking and says he knew there was more. I didn't want to tell him, but he would get angry if I didn't, so I did, told him I felt like our relationship wasn't great ATM, and he got angry anyway.

So, what I mean is, what he says goes. I'll do whatever he says, ultimately, so he doesn't get angry. Not that it works.

I feel like I'm pretty good at sticking up for my community and the things I think are right. But interpersonally I'm pathetic, just a grovelling people pleaser. If he said something my community did was wrong, I'd argue and I wouldn't be afraid of him. If he said something I did was wrong, I'd crumple straight away. Does that make sense?

EMDR is very helpful but it can be gruelling after sessions. You need support and calm.
It is also tough to treat anyone for past trauma when they are also currently experiencing trauma in their everyday lives.
I wish I had some answers for you.

Can you not see how what you have said here equates to him controlling you?

ETA You are allowed to have private thoughts and feelings. You should be able to say “I don’t really feel like talking about it” and you shouldn’t feel like you have to do everything his way or everything that he wants in order to keep his anger at bay.

I don't agree with @NowWotsit although I understand what led them to write what they did.

The way I see it is - you have mental health issues because of your past trauma. This makes your behaviour sometimes challenging to deal with and to be around. That doesn't make him being angry at you okay. That doesn't make him pressing you until you give in to his demands to tell him what's wrong, because he doesn't accept your answer, an okay thing to do.

You're an adult and you have the right to tell him in your own time or never at all.

Even with my own child who is 8, I do not expect her to tell me how she's feeling or what she's thinking if she's upset, shut down or needs space. I encourage her to share with me if and when she wants to and I reiterate that I won't be angry or upset no matter what she tells me. I try to make her feel safe but I also respect that she has a right to an element of privacy around her thoughts.

Just because you're his intimate partner doesn't mean he gets to know everything you are thinking and feeling and especially not when he punishes you for doing so by being angry. He is basically forcing you into sharing and then when you do, he proves he is not a safe person for you to share these thoughts with.

You described a situation that's known as a lose-lose situation in abusive situations. If you didn't say anything, he would be angry and annoyed, and if you did tell him, he'd be angry and annoyed. You can't win that - not that you're trying to... Perhaps a better way to put it is... You can't keep the peace in that situation and you can't come out of it unscathed.

What also strikes me is that you felt the need to escape him - you ran and hid in the bathroom. That's your fight, flight, freeze, fawn, flop response. Again, that's a survival response that he has activated in you. How can someone who loves you and cares about you be okay with doing this to you? I would be devastated if I had a partner and I caused this response in them. It doesn't matter if part of that response is related to your childhood trauma. He shouldn't be activating that response in you at all. And certainly if it happened once, once was enough.

OP please talk to Women's Aid. At least do the DASH assessment. This is not your fault. Your nervous system is reacting to danger, in a very healthy way. This man continues to scare you because he IS a threat.

He is violent, aggressive and cannot/will not control his rage. He doesn't care if he frightens you or not. Maybe he feels powerful when you're nervous around him. Men who kick walls, smash down doors are statistically very likely to attack a partner. He feels entitled to behave that way and entitled of your acceptence.

I thought I could never leave my husband of 20 years. I loved him so much. The abuse started gradually. The escalation, when it began, was so vicious, so cruel. He almost killed me several times. I escaped with our children. We've been in Refuge several months now, I feel safer than I ever did the 2 decades I was with him.

Please try to realise your fear is a warning of very real danger. It's not you overeacting.