AIBU to still feel unsafe and want to tell someone?

[Puffinsandcoffee]

My husband has done some things to me /around me in recent years that weren't great. Nothing really terrible - not hitting or SA - but stuff that has made me definitely a bit scared of him.

It's been well over a year since he's done anything like that.

I just have two questions I thought maybe someone on here would have experience of this stuff and could answer.

One is, when did you find that you felt safe and comfortable around your husband again? Is it normal that I don't? Every time he swears or slams a door or something I get scared, and then scared he'll notice I'm scared, because he would get annoyed by that because he just wants us to move on from the stuff that happened. The world cup is stressing me out because he keeps jolting out of his chair and shouting and swearing at the TV!

The other question is, is it really vindictive that I want to tell someone in real life? I obviously won't. He'd be so hurt and really angry, because it's such an injustice to who he is in general. But there was total secrecy in my family about my dad's additions and abuses and I think because of that, having to not tell anyone about the stuff my husband has done is making me feel worse, like as if it's all happening again even though it's not.

Just to pre-empt some stuff that might come up

• I have posted about this stuff before. I spoke to Women's Aid because of replies. I don't mind my other posts being referred to but please don't "catch me out" with stuff from them. Mumsnet is the only place I can have these "conversations" and I'm not trying to be defensive or in denial or anything like that.
• I am getting therapy for cPTSD which I have from other stuff mostly childhood stuff.
• I haven't gone into detail about what he did because I don't think it's relevant but I will if it is.
• I won't be leaving him. I can't even if I wanted to but I don't want to.

I didn't put a poll as it's not really an either/ or but just - is this all normal and will pass, or am I damaging my relationship by not moving on from it?

Oh mate,he IS scary, he sounds like a fucking monster 😱

Not necessarily. It’s not ideal but sometimes women in closed communities have ways of supporting each other. Maybe the OP will be able to text a help ‘bat signal’ if needed in extremis and they’d come over to visit minimising the risk she’s at and reducing her fear.

I would be a police, divorce and sod you type of person but the OP doesn’t think she can do that, so anything she can do to minimise her risk and seek support must be better than nothing.

Yes, I mean I can definitely see why OP felt that way and why she might feel more comfortable contacting traveller-run DV orgs.

OP, I'm really sorry for the hateful posts. 💐 But plenty of posters on this thread do not feel hatred towards you due to your background. I can understand strongly wanting to only discuss within community and fearing prejudice from outside but otoh I think it puts you at risk if you can't trust non-travellers at all. You've said you've found this thread helpful & I hope it has been. There are prejudiced people out there but there are many who are not.

It sounds like a good idea to speak to your family.

That's going to have to be a work in progress though..

• you already have a lot on your plate...you sound like a very strong person. That's ideal if in your community there's enough to resolve the issues, so it's less stressful for you than going outside. As pp linked, there are traveller organisations who could perhaps help if you wanted non-family help.

OP, can I ask this : I know you said your husband has never acted this way around the children, but will this remain the same? Certainly if he begins to act this way around the children the situation changes.

It surprised me how many of you disagreed with me saying that all men are scary. I still think that's the case, and that some of my fear is from what I've seen other men do or what I know they've done.'

• OP, if men in your community are more likely to have issues with addiction & trauma which lead to violence , that doesn't mean 'all men are scary'. Addiction & violence aren't the same as typical male behaviour.

I understand these issues are driven by trauma your community has been through, but that doesn't mean you should accept violence & being scared as inevitable because that's how all men are. They're not.

And if I understand right, you're saying that your fear was partly due to previous experiences? - I can see that made it worse. But your husband 's behaviour WAS objectively scary. Most women would ve scared in your place. And with your history of trauma, his behaviour is even less excusable.

'it's so in keeping with what other men in my family do, it seems fair to think it's at least partly, indirectly, my fault. I am very difficult to live with, I think I probably haven't been clear enough on that. I know it doesn't justify what he's done, but I wonder if other men might react in a similar way if they'd had his life for the past 20 years.'

• I understand you think the behavior of your family may have affected your husband, but that still doesn't excuse it. Even of that's true, it is NOT your fault.

Your husband is not being forced to go and visit your family with you. If it's affecting his behaviour so much, maybe he should choose not to go?
You said earlier, 'He loves them, loves visiting them, has a really good relationship with my brother especially. But there's been a fair bit of scary moments and blood and gore at times and I think that stuff just accumulates over time as a higher stress level?' He's making the choice to keep seeing them. That doesn't excuse scaring you in the ways you've described, especially with your history of trauma.

I understand your husband's life is challenging, but you having CPTSD is no excuse for him behaving this way. It is hus problem. He is an adult and needs to find healthier ways of dealing with his emotions.

Couldn't he try and take up hobbies to get out his aggression/stress? Doe he have friends apart from your family? Can his own family not support him with his anger issues? Would he be willing to admit he has a problem/attend anger management therapy?

Sorry, I know that's a lot of questions! Feel free to answer what's useful, if any.

OK I did a really stupid thing and talked to him. It went as you might expect. It's only just happened this afternoon so I'm posting here just because I have no one else to talk to.

I had a bad morning, a bit spaced out, a bit depressed, period pains, really tired, etc. I got up with the kids at 6, and went back to bed when he got up around 8. He took them out for the morning. I was still in bed when he got back around 12. He put on TV for the kids and came into our room, asking me what was wrong, saying he really wanted to know, wouldn't get angry etc etc. So I said I felt like our relationship wasn't great at the moment and I wasn't sure it would just be ok again once the current stress we're under goes away.

Of course, he got really angry - "nothing's ever good enough", "is this about that time I lost it with you?" "what are you going to do about it?" He shouted at me but didn't do anything bad, no names or kicking stuff or anything like that.

I can't really remember what happened tbh. I kept saying it wasn't anyone's fault and it wasn't his fault and it was just that our life had had more stress than most relationships could survive. I can't remember all the stuff he said, but he definitely got really angry again about the time I "threatened" to tell someone about the stuff he'd done because I did it to hurt him. I didn't. I said I wanted to tell someone because the secrecy was the thing that did the harm with my dad, and I just wanted to tell someone. Because it was a big thing that happened to me. I never threatened, I never wanted to hurt him.

Anyway, he was livid, said it was unfair to him because of everything else he's done to help me and support me with all the other stuff that's happened to me. Which is true, he has done a lot for me.

I don't really know what happened. I ended up locking myself in the bathroom again, but our new place you can unlock them from the outside so he just let himself in after a while. I can't remember what happened, I remember being terrified and I nearly fell over the laundry basket to get away from him - stupid, since I was cornered in the bathroom with nowhere to go, I just crouched under the sink, squeezed between the sink and the shower, I must have looked so pathetic tbh. He didn't do anything. He made me some tea at one point. He didn't kick any doors or whatever. I'm just terrified of him when he's angry. I honestly felt like he hated me this afternoon, the way he spoke to me.

He sat on the floor at the door once he'd come into the bathroom, and told me all this stuff I can't remember about how good our relationship was, did I not see it that way, it was really hurtful for him to think I didn't think we were meant for each other, and him being "abusive" was so unfair because of all the good things he's done over the years.

Then we were supposed to be at a friends for dinner so he gave me 10 minutes to decide if I was coming or not and get ready. I got ready, he asked if I was coming, I said I didn't care and what did he want me to do, he said he thought it would be good for me to get out so that's what we did. Dinner's over now. I'm staying elsewhere tonight (which was planned already and not a result of all this). I feel awful. He's said he loves me a few times this evening, all the usual nice stuff. He bought me flowers and chocolate and wine.

I feel just scared and empty now. And how can I tell anyone? He's made it really clear I'm "allowed to" as long as it's "fair" to him. I don't think he'd ever forgive me if I told anyone tbh, because I could never tell it in a way he felt was "fair". If I tell my SIL, I'll have to make her promise not to tell my brother, and then that's just a burden on her, and she has young kids of her own, plus it doesn't seem right to ask her to keep my secret from her own husband, esp. when he's my brother.

I will answer the questions from @Jane379 (thank you so much, Jane, you and a few other posters have been so kind to me). And of course I don't expect any replies to this. I know people have been so generous already with supporting me and I've been really frustrating to engage with. I just wanted to write it down because I'll read over all this some day to remember what happened and what it looks like from the outside. It's literally the only way I have to actually get all this to exist outside my own head and his version of it. I can't even remember all that was said, but I felt like - how is it I'm the villain, when I'm the one cowering in a corner, crying? And, also, if he actually loved me, would he not be sad to hear that I felt like our relationship wasn't great, and sad that I was so sad? And instead he was just angry because it was unfair to him.

I kind of agree except In think the OP needs to do what is right for her and her children.

I feel just scared and empty now. And how can I tell anyone? He's made it really clear I'm "allowed to" as long as it's "fair" to him. I don't think he'd ever forgive me if I told anyone tbh, because I could never tell it in a way he felt was "fair"

I’m sure wiser people than me will offer better advice @Puffinsandcoffee but I wanted to say that you don’t have to do what he tells you. He’s not in charge of you. It’s clear from his actions that he is not the good man you keep saying he is.

I have no idea at this stage tbh. I hope so, but then, ten years ago I might have been sure I'd have left after the stuff he's done in the past few years. I think he won't, though. He said he feels ashamed of himself and that's why he doesn't want anyone to know. I think it's only me, I think I bring it out in him. I think he won't do things like that to our kids.

I think what I mean is just, to me, if you're not scared of men, it's because you haven't see what they're capable of. I don't mean that all men would, but all men (pretty much, all physically healthy men) could just kill you. I have male friends who I really think wouldn't ever hurt someone else. But they still could. If you've seen what men can do, how can you not be a bit scared? But it doesn't matter. I have no interest in feeling safe around men, so it doesn't matter if other people don't see it this way? Unless I'm missing something? What I mean is just, me not feeling safe around him isn't just because of him.

"I think it's only me, I think I bring it out in him."

now that sounds like gaslighting to me

You are scared. I say this with kindness but no one deserves to live in fear and you are. I don't want to tell you what to do because I do not understand the nuances of your situation. I just want to ask a couple of questions.

What would you tell your daughter if she was in this situation?

What can you do to protect your children from being in this situation?

He's very family and work focused, I think like a lot of men. He has friends but mostly just wants to be at home after work. He's definitely not a lads at the pub type. He has hobbies as in he does keep himself fit, not very much other than gym, running etc, but even that comes last after everything else, including my hobbies. I have told him that's making everything harder for both of us and he needs an outlet too.

Visits to my family aren't really the problem. Since my dad died, there's much less stress, so the benefits are more obviously outweighing the costs.

His family, it's hard to explain but the relationships aren't that close. It's a much smaller family than mine, they're very far away, and he has almost no one his own age. It's hard to explain, but he has lost some family by joining mine, and my family love him. He's been part of my family for longer than many of the people who've since been born into it.

He thinks the problem will be solved when our life is less stressful. He thinks it's me, feeling down because I haven't had time to do the things that help me. He's also "sick of all my shit". So no, I don't think he'd be willing to attend anger management therapy 😂

It’s not you - he’d be like this with anyone. You’re right, a normal man would be concerned/upset/worried if their wife said that she felt their relationship wasn’t in a good place and that she was scared of him. He certainly wouldn’t start shouting if that’s what she said had scared her.

Have you ever read about DARVO? It’s a tactic used by abusive/controlling people. It stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim
and Offender. So when you confront them they deny (that didn’t happen, that wasn’t how I said it whatever), attack (you’re crazy, you’re ungrateful, you’re overly sensitive), reverse victim and offender (I was just defending myself against your outrageous accusations, you’re always criticising me, how could you make me feel like this after all I do for you).

It is literally like a script for abusive people to throw you off the truth, make you think it’s all your fault. The number of times you have blamed yourself is very typical of a woman in an abusive relationship (why do you think women stay?)

I’m very sorry to hear that this has set you back as you seemed so confident in what you were going to do next. Do you think you could speak to one of the organisations, anonymously?

Oh OP this is really really bad, your minimising what he has done and believe it’s you that’s the problem and nobody else would be a nervous wreck at these trivial things….Yes we all would be the same as you if we experienced this, it’s domestic violence it’s awful and scary and your husband is a master manipulator just like all the other violent bully men who behave like this. You say he said nice things to you yesterday like that makes him a nice guy he’s not a nice guy he’s really not. You’re scared that you may even look scared because he will react badly to that even though he he has done things to scare you. Please listen to people on here we are not exaggerating you need to leave him, don’t tell him you just need to sort shit out and disappear when he’s not there this will only get worse, it will happen again and next time I’m afraid it won’t be the wall he punches. You can leave him, you can start again you really can no matter what

Sending you love and strength. May your vision be clear, your strength renewed and your courage recognised.

Thank you. I hadn't heard about that. It's upsetting to read tbh. I feel like that's what happened today. I felt like I was going mad.

That is the exact purpose of it 💐

If my daughter wasn't happy for whatever reason I'd want her to come home to me. I tell all my kids that - they can always come home to me, even when they're grown up, even if they've done something really bad.

I don't know what to do to protect them. Today, I said I was sick and had period pains. I don't know if they just accepted that or if they knew something else was going on.

You do know what to do.

I can't leave him. I really can't. He didn't even do anything bad today. He shouted at me that's all. Definitely I can see the gaslighting and the "DARVO" that @OneFineDay22 mentioned, but not anything at all dangerous or even scary to someone else. I have no idea why I freaked out so badly.

I cannot leave him. I realise there are many of you who think I'm a terrible mother for not leaving him. I've been told I'm a terrible mother by people close to me (though never by him, and never because of him). I realise I'm doing my kids harm, and it's not clear to me that they'd be safer just with me. I think it's entirely possible it's me who's harmful, to him and to them. I'd leave them all if I thought that was the best thing for them all, but I think on balance kids do need their mum unless she's truly horrendous and I do love them with my whole soul.

Can you try therapy? You say you know you're harming your kids, but you're not prepared to do anything about it?

I'm not saying 'you must leave immediately', but I think it's worth trying understand why you're willing to cause them harm.

OK I feel not in the right place mentally for posting actually. I think I'll end up posting stuff that will confirm all the worst ideas people might have. I'm actually fine, just a really bad afternoon. I don't feel worried he'll hurt my kids. I feel completely traumatised. I've been having nightmares since I started this thread. I realise he's been abusive in the past and now being abusive in how we're "allowed" to remember that. I don't think I'm in any physical danger at all, and I don't think he's to blame for the trauma. I think he's now probably got some trauma too.

I'm not disengaging - again, I can't tell you all how grateful I am that people are still taking the time to reply to me - it's the only conversation I can have about what's going on and it makes a huge difference to me. But I'm not in a normal mental state this evening, I'm at a particularly low point.