To think this isnt normal child behaviour?

[Burntoutmumm]

Please help me, im at my wits end. I had my first dc 5 years. Since I've been a sahm me and dd have always been close, I would devote everything to her and we would have constant outings. However the past couple of years have been hard and testing for me. I'm find dd increasingly hard to be around, currently writing this hiding away upstairs from her.

Dd has always been advanced and independent from a young age. She is very strong willed and hard headed. This has meant personality wise she has not been easy to deal with. However I have noticed it extends beyond her occasional hysteria breakdowns. She doesn't respond well to no and will sometimes scream, slam doors, scratch/bite, punch or kick. She's quite tall for her age and I am quite short and she can hurt me. As well a this she has gained these sort of "ticks" I would call them. Sometimes it is sniffing, or constant yawning. Recently it has manifested into crude words. She will constantly randomly shout genitalia out loud, even in public, and its so embarrassing for me.

The new thing now is this weird laughing. I noticed it the other day when we where in the supermarket. Its not a normal laughter, like a forced bhahaha kind of laugh. She did it all the way through the shops and I kept getting stared at. She has done it all today again in the shops and it has continued at home. The more she does it the more it gets under my skin and drives me crazy until I have to leave the room. I have asked her why she is laughing and she just says she doesn't know why and cant control it. Its the same with the impulsive rude word calling out. She says she doesn't even realise when she says it and doesn't know why. What started off as me thinking she was just coping rude words she learnt at school from the other kids (they all do toilet humour there) has gotten way out of control to the point now were I don't know if it's habitual or something more.

She also hair chews, horrendously. Until her hair is drenched and matted. I've bought her some chewlrey to try and help.

I miss my daughter. I'm at my wits end with her behaviour. I don't recognise or understand her anymore. I try to have talks to see if she is anxious, upset, what's going on in her mind. Most of the time she doesn't even understand herself. I'm starting to despair and wonder if this is all normal? I know young children especially can seek sensory comfort and that it isnt unheard to a certain degree but this all feels a bit much. She also has started this new thing where she will only wear the same clothes over and over again and has to wear socks to bed. Again, this is all harmless but is it just normal kid stuff and if so why am I struggle so much and feeling so distant from her because of it. Its eating away at me with the guilt.....

On the NHS it says 1 in 5 children develop tics and they usually go away on their own so I wouldn't be too concerned about them unless they last a long time. (NHS says over a year). I know a couple of people's kids who had differnet tics and they both grew out of them. I find drawing attention to it makes it worse, I just ignore them when he does it. He can go weeks with nothing and then one starts up, it's like a compulsion. It's the accumulated behaviour that I would be more concerned about like the hitting you. If you are concerned go to the gp as they are there to help.

It doesn't sound like usual behaviour at all.

I just feel awful at how exhausting im finding all of this. Its making me feel like such a bad mum. I feel like this compulsive behaviour has consumed my daughter. Sometimes she is okay and I see her again but it feels like most of the time she is just overridden by these ticks and restless energy. I hope this makes sense...when she is herself she is so sweet and I feel relieved and then it goes again

I'm surprised that school aren't seeing any of this at all, especially the tics. Some can be quite subtle so maybe they haven't noticed. And of course they will be more frequent when she is tired but from working in schools, tics are normally apparent.

Google "coke bottle effect autism"

Look,the tics aren't going to be making her feel good. They must be exhausting. So whether they're part of normal child development, down to stress, or due to a condition like tourettes, you owe it to her to have them properly assessed.

If nothing else, you'll hopefully find better ways to manage it and once she knows why they're happening, she'll feel less stressed and worried about them.

You're not a bad mum.

Could you record some of this concerning behavior without her knowledge and show it to some one who may suggest ways to manage it or identify if it needs more intervention ?

Sounds like Tourette’s. It must be really difficult but she cannot help it. It’s likely she’s trying extra hard at school and then it all comes out at home. See your GP. Good luck.

Tourettes, ADHD and autism are all neurodivergent traits and can be present at the same time. The wearing the same clothes and socks to bed thing sounds like autism, I would move forward with SEN assessment as soon as you can (long waiting list so no harm in going to your GP early)

They really aren’t. And it’s a diagnosis not a label

I would go to see your GP and discuss your concerns. Obviously, it's hard to make a judgement based on a few snapshots but I've got 5 children and have worked in schools and I think this is outside the realm of 'normal' behaviours and I suspect there's some neurodiversity at play here. Don't struggle on alone OP, you're not a bad mum, you just need some help and support.

From a mum of a 16 year old neurodivergent child (and quite likely my younger child too) I would say speak to SENCO at school (although your daughter may mask heavily there) and then go to the GP with your concerns. I’d push for an assessment. Many of the behaviours you talk about, I recognise in my AuDHD child at that age.

@Moonlightdust may I ask what behaviours are similar to your dc?

My now 26 year old DS was diagnosed with Tourette’s at the age of 7. I went to our GP and described the tics. He was referred to CAMHS and diagnosed about a year later. The exhaustion your DD is exhibiting could be from suppressing tics. My DS does suppress his around people he isn’t familiar with and it leaves him wiped out physically and mentally. Another thing to mention is that Tourette’s and ADHD are co morbid conditions. DS has both.

The Coke Bottle Effect - Connective Family https://share.google/b7pQR65mA76mxPJSs this is similar to what my daughter used to do - the tips are good.

Tourettes Action FAQ https://share.google/vOdci6YB1HfO9KfNx have a look here and see if anything rings a bell.

She'll pick up on the fact you're scared of her. You needcto be the parent, because ND or not she's playing you for attention

About the Founder — Sensory Smart https://share.google/3CDXvCZEXWG8PIYuK

This is a good website for things like seamless socks and non itchy school uniform. I don't have any sensory differences yet these high temperatures are making me so uncomfortable in clothes. Your poor DD is possibly really sweaty and itchy which would make all the other distress behaviors worse.

I was also thinking masking. Have you spoken to the teachers about how she copes with demands at school? If she is told no there how does she respond?
Its hard to say based on her age whether it is masking or not. I worked with a child with autism and PDA profile and there is no way in the lower years she could mask it. If she didn't want to do anything she would just say no I don't want to 😂. Giving choices is what worked with her in the classroom.
What are the consequences when she hurts you? Is she given warnings and time to reflect or do you let it go? That needs to be dealt with, saying ouch when she hurts you.

Sorry, I meant to add that the "weird laughing" can be a fight or flight behaviour. DD occasionally does it but in her case it's more like inappropriate fooling around. When she was your DD's age, for instance, attempts to force her to read would lead to "fool" behaviour like going all floppy or coming up with continuous avoidance strategies like holding the book upside down or back to front. Sounds quite funny now but my god it is irritating and yes, embarrassing in public.

That is pretty common with highly neurodivergent girls especially, it’s called “masking”. She may be overwhelmed by all the social and other demands of school but can manage to hide it until she’s home in her safe place.
I know it doesn’t feel like it but all the strange behaviour at home is actually a compliment to you because it means she feels safe enough to decompress with you. But it’s also a sign she’s overstimulated/destressed, and of course awful for you.
So you should definitely seek out help, ask the GP for a referral. A lot of GPs know very little about neurodivergence, so if they try to fob you off with “kids will be kids”, don’t accept that nonsense. Wishing you the very best of luck. It’s a cliche to say that “it’s a journey” but in this case it really is. You will be amazed how quickly you will become an expert when it’s for your child’s sake.
The good news is that with many neurodivergent kids, once you know how to arrange their routine to avoid them getting overwhelmed, things can improve dramatically.
Be prepared that you may have to be very direct with the school and not sugarcoat anything to get them to understand her needs because people don’t tend to believe what they don’t see with their own eyes.

This is a better description. The writer is an adult who is insightful into her own behaviours. I've found her quite an interesting read

I Swear is a well produced film about tourettes. Have you watched it op? Also an accompanying documentary.

There was also a girl on educating Yorkshire. I've seen another documentary somewhere too

I mentioned these as its not often people see it in life. I remember Pete from Big Brother really raised awareness.

Apologies if you already are well informed on it, but I thought worth suggesting.

I’m a psychologist. I wouldn’t use the word “normal” anyway for anyone, but no, this is not typical behaviour.
On the tiny bit of info it sounds like neurodivergence; either autism or Tourette’s or both… these often come with ODD.
Book in with the GP and ask for a right to choose referral. If it’s open on your area then the waiting list could be months to 5 years. If you have the money, pay for a psychologist (not a random on the internet make sure they are a clinical, health or educational psychologist with the HCPC) and go through the assessment. It could be done in a month or two if no waiting list. It should cost around £1400-2k. It’s a lot of work hence the fee. It needs multiple psychologists to complete.

Remember that the diagnosis won’t change her behaviour at all. Remember also it’s not a behavioural difficulties. It’s an impulse/ difference in her brain. Just as we’d not expect a child with dyslexia to “just read quicker” we can’t expect a child with Tourette’s to “just stop saying the words we don’t like” and so it’s about managing the triggers more so than the outcome.

Good luck

I would book a gps apt ans your first port of call and see if you can surreptitiously record some of the things she is doing regarding the tics so you can show the behaviours you mean.
Physical tics are not uncommon in young children, when I worked in a a school there was one that would sniff, another that would throat clear and another that would yawn.
Our staff training always taught us to ignore them, not draw attention to them and continue as if they weren’t doing them.
Tiredness and anxiety made them worse, you may find that because it’s coming up the end of term your little one is totally exhausted. My 6 year old is totally done with school already and he’s got 3 weeks to go, so I’m just trying to jolly him through it but he is super tired and grumpy.