To think that NT children miss out in school inclusion policies.

[empee47]

To think that inclusion policies in primary schools are almost never geared to helping academic, NT children get the best out of their education? They’re almost always designed to help the underdog - not denying this is necessary - but those at the top end of the spectrum don’t get the chance to shine as bright as they might otherwise do.

Honestly this is just the sort of dumb statement we see.

Children can struggle in school even when significantly gifted.

Any child, even a very academically able one, will struggle in a chaotic class, or one where the material is not being taught well, or where they are being left to teach it to themselves, or where the class is being regularly disrupted.

Kids can also become just massively bored and distanced from education, or develop poor work habits, because they are not given the opportunity to actually need to work or study regularly as the material is low level or the marks are inflated.

It's quite remarkable what happens when you take children out of classrooms like that and put them into one where it is calm, where the teacher can pay attention to the whole class, and where they are given work that is engaging and requires their engagement. Most people can't actually afford to go private though.

Depends on the school is imagine. A nice comprehensive maybe, sink school not so much pushing and more crowd vobtrol

Wonder how many of the good state kids were from grammar school where they won't put up with the disruption

Did you not read it carefully. It had private&grammar together and compared with comprehensives.

The primary purpose of state funded education is not to help a minority shine. Its to give all children at least the basics they need to navigate and be useful members of society. That's what we pay our taxes for.
Within this, children who are particularly gifted academically will achieve this baseline with ease, children with additional challenges will struggle, so it makes sense to put linited resources where they're needed.
As parents there's plenty that can be done to help academically able children push through the ceiling of the state offer.

But it shouldn't lump STATE grammar and private together. I said about STATE schools

Why not? Selective v non selective.

Of course my children don’t speak for everyone in my area. I was giving my experience with state primary school in England. I didn’t say all children were bored. I said my 2 eldest were. But I’m not arrogant enough to think that there aren’t other children that are academically very clever. My children aren’t unique in that sense. My eldest went into applying for grammar school and was successful. I don’t need to look at year 6 sats as my eldest 2 kids are now in secondary school. The contents of the SATS are high is relative to the child. My eldest is going into year 9 next year has been selected to do advanced program for maths, English and science where he will do year 9 and 10 curriculum in one year. It might be surprising but it happens. Out of my 3 kids is the most focused and academic and as I said before he wasn’t pushed enough and was bored - not because the teachers didn’t care but because they had no capacity. Classes are 30 kids. How can teachers be able to help those who need more support and push those who don’t?

Conversely, my best friend has a child with SEN and they weren’t the greatest either.

Perhaps those "thugs" are ASD children with sensory overload hence the hitting? Funny how your sense of inclusion only goes for the ones like your child.

Anyway another abeist thread about autistic kids. Why do you need inclusive policies if you don't have a ND child? Not that they are inclusive anyway.

My child has SEN and probably needs a 1-1. Highly suspect he won't have anyone when he starts school until they realise the level of disruption caused means they will have no choice.

This isn’t the case. The school’s function is set out in the education act. I cannot find the clause just now but schools need to meet the needs of every child, which includes gifted and talented children, who’s needs aren’t ’perform to average’.

Guilty! I don’t think children whose coping mechanism in mainstream school involves continually punching classmates ought to be ‘included’ in mainstream. So sue me!

It’s brain dead obvious that you are right. People are turning their thoughts into pretzels to avoid this truth.

here in Scotland we get told that if we exclude kids like this then they’re far more likely to end up in prison which is terrible. The implication being that we’re truly vile people for moaning about our children getting physically assaulted and why can’t we just ‘be kind’. It’s insane. Totally insane! Innocent, well behaved, keen to learn kids are just cannon fodder.

‘Be kind’ literally does mean ‘allow yourself to get punched and don’t complain’
Absolute madness

The only children that get support are borderline children.
Why? Because it's all about the school grades.
There is no benefit to schools to give solidly average kids or achieving kids a diagnosis as far as they are concerned because the ND children ultimately demand more resources than they actually get in a lot of cases.

Bright NT children are not loosing out compared to other children. The bright ND children who NEED support aren't getting it because they are seen as achieving 'well enough'. The average ND kid who are never going to be at a higher level arent getting it because they are seen as achieving 'well enough'.

This isn't right. The whole system is geared only to ND children who are borderline and may go up a level with support. Even the ND kids who are massively behind often get neglected in favour of others.

I've seen so many examples of this at all levels.

They need to be in an SEN school but that is not the fault of the child. Calling them thugs because they might be struggling to cope isn't nice. Also who is to say with support they will be in prison? You think my son because he can't speak very much will be in prison because he occasionally pushes?

There's non selective private schools

Tge point is that selective state schools won't put up with disruptive kids. It's not fair on any child to have their education constantly disrupted

Do you think that a child who assaults others should be left next to other children? If so, why? Why should children have to put up with being assaulted?

No there should be funding for TAs to watch him or SEN schools. However if there is neither he needs to be in school to learn how to behave and socialise. We have no idea why this child is acting act.

Too much of a "stick these disabled kids into a institution" vibe here.

If the issue is being overwhelmed by being in environment with too much going on in terms of noise and other children, a TA to watch them isn't going to do shit tbh.

There are plenty of kids that DON'T need an institution. They need an appropriate environment. There is this conflation here that not being in mainstream=institution. That's the real issue. There's fuck all in-between that provides a solution between the gap between mainstream and something significantly more.

It doesn't even make financial sense if you put in all the associated costs relating to mental health etc for this particular group of kids who are failed by mainstream.

Speaking to a friend whose son has significant learning issues. She said there were 60 kids with a diagnosis chasing 12 places in our council area for yr7 secondary placements. It's completely nuts.

Absolutely. I was at high school in the early/ mid 80s. It was a comp in an economically mixed area. No one threw a chair or so
much as a book, as far as I remember. Kids were told to get out of class for having a fit of the giggles.

Pupils who can’t cope with sitting down when told and doing their work need to be supported much better, and that does not mean leaving them in a class of 30
kids and hoping for the best.

Bright, NT children do not need "inclusion policies" because the entirety of the school system has been designed specifically for them. If they are finding that seeing adjustments made for ND students is making them sparkle less in comparison, then that's a sign that the policies are working to give EVERYONE the opportunity to reach their potential. It might be shocking for you (and them) to find out that the potential of ND children is often equal to or above the potential of their NT classmates.