Is this a typical primary school day / experience?

[ThinkingIsAllowed]

My son goes to private school and I can't decide if it's worth the money. Could he get this experience at a state primary? He's about to finish Reception.

• starts 8.20am, senior teacher always waiting by the gate to greet each child by name, and expects to be greeted back by the child
• writing, maths, phonics etc in his class of 12 children that has 1 teacher and part time TA
• calm class environment, no disruption
• forest school once per week, including things like making a campfire
• learns to read with actual paper books! No tablets. The teacher or TA reads with him most days
• sports 3x per week, including swimming, dance and PE
• club until 4.30 every day, things like art or sports
• after school care til 5.35 if you want it. Colouring etc
• a lot of contact with the teacher. If I ever have a question I can email her and she replies within a day, or can meet with her, or she will proactively email me to check something or make an observation (eg she wrote to suggest he might be ambidextrous)
• lots of outside space so the children help occasionally in the vegetable garden etc
• good quality food, cooked on site
• 3 school trips this year

It seems like a good school but we pay a lot for it and if we can get this experience outside of the private sector that would be good!

I think you know that most state schools won’t be able to offer all of the things on your list; surely that’s why you picked the private option?

Certain things, like being greeted on the gate and having “real” books are probably almost universal. But I suspect that those saying their local primary has every single thing on that list might be exaggerating. Even though I appreciate many schools have lots of extracurriculars and outside space.

HOWEVER, that doesn’t mean that the state primaries without some of the items on your list are bad places. My eldest goes to a school with a concrete slab playground and it is a friendly, vibrant place with a huge mixture of kids. It’s the heart of the community. She is happy and is learning loads.

We actually moved her from the nursery of a local prep, having intended for her to remain in the private sector. Despite the small class sizes and sports and gorgeous playing field, there was lots about the place that wasn’t for us. A saving of almost 20k per child per year in taxed income is enough to target any shortfalls, for us.

It obviously depends totally on the particular private and state schools you are considering, and how they would suit your own children.

I don’t think it is the case that state schools can’t offer this - at least at Primary level. Our school in a ‘nice’ part of Surrey offers all of it except the class size.

I do have an eye on potentially going private at secondary level though, from what I’ve heard.

At my primary you'd get the phonics. You wouldn't get the sport. You wouldn't get the reading every day. Maybe twice a week. You wouldn't get forest school. You could have the after school care. And the school dinners are a bit crap.

However I'd probably save the cash and pay for private secondary

Quoting so I can read back.

very rural Scotland school. rated excellent. Role 60 plus a full nursery and a full playgroup.

All the above yes except

local councils have rolled out iPads as mandatory. So a no opt out system. Primary 1-3 shared basis. P4 up own iPad. In our area, this is a huge challenge by parents and is so different school to school. We are absolute minimum.

Outside space acres of it and used daily, massive parental input and initiatives. All parents helping disclosure checked and with a teacher. From beginning to end and flower growing to the library, mock trials to pretend vet and GP clinics. Electricians, plumbers, emergency services.

after school zero. but lots of parental support and activities.

would I pay for private now? Nope. High school. Absolutely

Thank you again to everyone who has taken the time to comment on this thread.

My conclusions so far are:

• it's possible to get an experience similar to private school at state school, except the class size
• but this isn't guaranteed, possibly even unlikely. You have to be lucky with things that can change and are outside your control, like the classmates (re disruption) and school culture / leadership team
• I can totally see the appeal of great state (if you can find one, and it stays great while you need it) + top ups outside school, but how on earth do you juggle two busy full time careers and manage to do all the top ups?!

You spend a lot of evenings and weekends ferrying your kids and other kids to clubs

For us, the savings on private school allowed us to work less (still full time, but less extras) and be around more - including being able to facilitate the extra-curriculars.

This was one of our main issues

School finishes so early and how were we supposed to accommodate that

The idea that I was going to step back from a career I’d dreamed of since age 14 was a non starter and my dh was much the same. No family near by, no space for a nanny or au pair snd childminders I looked at didn’t do much with the kids.

We gave it a go at state.
The school wasnt great, we were run ragged with making it all work, the kids were exhausted trying to fit in swimming and music that the school didn’t do and squeezing in reading aswel very late in Thd evenings when they were already tired because we didn’t finish at 3:30pm all became too much for everyone

Our Indi however did masses of fun and educational stuff ( including 1/1 teading every day ) up to 6:30 / 7pm including an evening meal and up to 9pm when in their senior years
Plus we could drop off from 7am ( not everyone did and sometimes we didn’t need to ) and Theyd have breakfast there.

It meant we could both work without one of us taking a career hit ( our careers weren’t about the money ) and we could relax in the evenings when we picked them up and the weekends rather than trying to squeeze in other stuff that school didn’t do
whats not to love OP

You work as a team around work and school and extra-curriculars. For example I needed to work late one day this week so DH picked the DC up from aftercare and took them to music lessons. DH had a busy day today so I picked up and did tonight's activity while he went home and finished up his work before I got back. We can't afford 2 DC in private school so we just make it work to give them everything they need.

Same for us. But as I said up thread - an after school nanny would be cheaper than school fees and can take your kids to the top up stuff if it's really important to you

@WhatsAWeekend that sounds great and I really empathise with your position. We're struggling even to do reading in the evening. Home around 6, bedtime at 7. You can't fit even one of sports / music / maths etc into that time, which means picking up earlier than 6, but that's not possible with work....

I don't know any households with both parents in 50+ hour per week careers who manage the state + extras option successfully. But I'm hoping someone will come along on this thread who has, so I can learn from them and save the money, whilst still giving my child a great education. I fear that is impossible...

An after school nanny! Cheaper than private school

Sounds very similar to the school my son is about to start at (I’ve friends with older children there) but the classes are bigger, around 25 or so.

Maybe a nanny would be helpful for you OP, they could do take the kids to the extra activities, drop off at school in the morning etc and will cost a lot less that private for all children

Both parents work flexibly around each other. At least, that's how we supported our dds extracurriculars.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. It would be near impossible to have two large careers and facilitate enrichment and extra curricular that isn't included at state school. This is why many select private.

We're in state. Do all the extra running around for swimming and training for 2 sports and music lessons. We can do this because I finish work at 3pm. I do not have a career so to speak. But I also do not have the £30kpa the privates here charge. So it was a case of making a choice somewhere. I'd love to be wrong, but you might be hoping/looking for something that just isn't realistic. It does sound like private suits your needs well..... despite the cost!

This helps me feel better. I work part time in a professional role that doesn’t allow me to switch off outside work hours, so I do extra work in the evenings. Partner full time. Between us we manage swimming and 3 extra curricular activities across 3 weekdays and a weekend day - for two kids. So whilst one has an activity, the other parent is home with the other child. Sometimes I think I am failing as I still find this really hard along with the usual mental load, despite working part time. Your post has helped me to realise this is the only way.

My DC go to a tiny rural state primary school - there are less than 50 children in the entire school; two classes split by Key Stage. I know for some people that would be a dealbreaker, but has worked fine for us. So in answer to your question re the school day, this is what we get:

Starts 8.50am, both class teachers & sometimes the head always waiting by the gate to greet each child by name, and expects to be greeted back by the child
writing, maths, phonics etc in his class of 27 children that has 1 teacher and 2 full time general TAs
class environment, there can be some disruption but it’s quickly dealt with
forest school once per week in KS1; a couple of times a term in KS2, including things like making a campfire
learns to read with actual paper books too
There are a couple of tablets & a desktop computer but these are only used for specific tasks like research
The teacher or TA reads with them each week
sports 2x per week, including swimming and a PE subject which changes each term
After school care only on certain days until 4.15
After school clubs are minimal - usually only one per term on one day - could be sport of craft related
Teachers can spoken to at the beginning & end of the day or via DoJo or email
Main areas around the school as asphalt playgrounds, but they use the school field, village green, welly walks around the village, cricket club regularly
Food is ok, but brought in as kitchen is too small
1-2 school trips per term - this year they’ve visited a community farm, a Roman fort; pantomime; a science museum; 4-day residential; theme park & next week they’re going to a local excavation of a Roman villa to take part.
It has its limitations - particularly around sports; but most people have their kids in extracurricular activities. The school day ends at 3.15pm. I work part-time in a very flexible job; I know a lot of other parents draft in grandparents to help with pickup.

@MexicanDaisythe extra curricular is a job in itself! Especially if you live rurally or have activities out of town.

Between fees and fuel cost, I think we shell out £6k per year. So that saving is still significant factoring in what you need to earn gross etc. to be able to pay for annual private fees.

But it is still very hard when you take the pay with your time route! I'd be amazed if I could find a nanny that would cover my son's schedule and logistics for any reasonable amount of money. Especially on a harsh winter January night in freezing temps (outside sports). You're either time poor or cash poor as a parent and you're lucky if you aren't both!

For music lessons, our state school had music teachers who would come into the school during the school day, and who set up in a small side room, and if you signed up and paid for it, your child would nip off for 20 mins once a week, and have a 1:1 guitar / piano / etc lesson. I think that’s not a particularly unusual set up, though of course it’s dependant on the school / private teachers.

So music lessons were covered during the school day. Swimming we either did at weekend or in the one after school slot where DH was part time and didn’t work that day. Normal PE lessons at school and sports club at the weekend / cricket club in the summer. Once they’re a bit older it’s easier to do things in the evening. But all those 4.30pm weekday clubs were off limits for us until DH dropped a day at work.

I don't think you're getting value for money in my personal opinion. My daughter's school does all of these things including forest school . Her class is a little larger but plenty of teaching assistants. I don't even live in a nice area. I think private high school may be worth the money but I wouldn't pay private for primary.

I will also add depends on your child. I'm abroad with DS in an international private school. And he has ASD. So we benefit from having a psychologist and occupational therapist on site, small class sizes, lots of space, inclusive environment. The state schools here seem to have small class sizes also and if my son had a different profile we would have sent him to the state school.
I don't think the quality of teaching in this school is great but I think the pastoral care is excellent and for us that was important because the environment has to be right for DS for him to be able to learn. They also are really positive and inclusive around neurodiversity and the school goes all the way up to senior school

£20k a year to make up for music, sports and art? What?

My twins both learn an instrument weekly, plus both do weekly hockey, tennis and karate. It’s around £6k.

Pre preps ie the age OP is talking about are very rarely that expensive
They are, on average, between £10k and £22k
only the very rare ones are at the higher end and some less that £10k

Someone upthread ( not using a Indi ) mentioned £20k and I don’t know why everyone keeps saying that ??

The poster I replied to claimed that it would cost £20k a year to involve her child in sports, music and art if sending to state school and wanting to make up for the shortfall in those subjects.