Is this a typical primary school day / experience?

[ThinkingIsAllowed]

My son goes to private school and I can't decide if it's worth the money. Could he get this experience at a state primary? He's about to finish Reception.

• starts 8.20am, senior teacher always waiting by the gate to greet each child by name, and expects to be greeted back by the child
• writing, maths, phonics etc in his class of 12 children that has 1 teacher and part time TA
• calm class environment, no disruption
• forest school once per week, including things like making a campfire
• learns to read with actual paper books! No tablets. The teacher or TA reads with him most days
• sports 3x per week, including swimming, dance and PE
• club until 4.30 every day, things like art or sports
• after school care til 5.35 if you want it. Colouring etc
• a lot of contact with the teacher. If I ever have a question I can email her and she replies within a day, or can meet with her, or she will proactively email me to check something or make an observation (eg she wrote to suggest he might be ambidextrous)
• lots of outside space so the children help occasionally in the vegetable garden etc
• good quality food, cooked on site
• 3 school trips this year

It seems like a good school but we pay a lot for it and if we can get this experience outside of the private sector that would be good!

Our local forest school do school pick up for outdoor after school 3-6. Gymnastics my son goes at 4pm because 1 day a week myil picks him up and takes him. Scouts is 6.30pm, so is football, tennis is Saturday morning as is my daughter's drama class

Sounds very like some of the small Welsh rural schools I worked in during my career. Music and performing arts were also very important and we regularly took part in Urdd competitions at local, district and national level. Offered lots of after school activities too.

Bigger classes, and not so much sport and after school club is a paid for extra, but otherwise pretty much the same.

Most kids do extra clubs, swimming, tennis, footie, rugby, drama as extra outside school. My son was struggling academically (later diagnosed with dyslexia) so we paid for tutor.

Regular forest school and great ptfa organised activities, including class/parent organised annual weekend camping trips.

Kids enjoy school and happy. Saved lots of money! No brainer for me if you have good primaries near by.

That sounds similar to my DCs state primary...main differences are that PE is only twice a week and there's only 1/2 school trips a year.

I’m a teacher in a primary academy.

Yes to:
greeting at door
paper books (we also have Chromebooks & online books are available but 90% of reading is books)
clubs available - craft, cooking, sports, tech, dance
after school club until 6
direct message with teacher (response within 24/48 hrs)
outdoor space (green/playgrounds/jungle gyms/pitches/pond)
food cooked on site

Main differences are:
class sizes (usually 28-30, although c.22 for maths/english)
1 TA per 90 chn
multiple needs within classroom which can cause disruption at times
no forest school (we used to have one)
food quality not great
trips mostly cancelled due to coach costs - we are doing one trip on the tube this year + all children have had a small group enrichment trip
PE once a week + activity hour

I know teachers who have worked at state and private schools and they've generally said there's no difference in teaching or the day to day, but private schools have a LOT better extra curriculars than state and smaller classes.

So it's up to you - you could spend a lot less than 20k a year to give your kids good extra curriculars outside of school time.

Also, there are dire state schools and state schools that send a third of kids to Oxbridge and far outperform private schools across the country. So it's really hard to compare them, it's more about the quality of the school than just whether it's private or state! There are some really shit private schools and some really shit state schools (and the opposite)

Agree with this. You’re paying for less disruption due to smaller class sizes and potentially the flexibility to get rid of difficult kids ? Sports might be limited to 2x a week with less variety and specialism. Wrap around care available. Trips quantity nothing special.

Oh and classes of 30 (infants) and 32 (juniors)

My dd is about to finish her reception year at a very good state primary.

• starts 8.20am, senior teacher always waiting by the gate to greet each child by name, and expects to be greeted back by the child

head teacher is always on the playground in the mornings, will greet everyone who passes. Start is 8.30, gates close 8.40.

• writing, maths, phonics etc in his class of 12 children that has 1 teacher and part time TA

22 kids in DD’s will rise to 28 I think next year. One full time teacher plus full time TA. they break into smaller groups for phonics and maths.

• calm class environment, no disruption

Fairly calm (I’ve helped out at forest school and swimming), I think this is down to luck in terms of what type of kids happen to be in the class.

• forest school once per week, including things like making a campfire

DDs school has this.

• learns to read with actual paper books! No tablets. The teacher or TA reads with him most days

paper books and no tablets but is listened to by teacher or TA once per week. Library visit and choose a book to bring home once a week.

• sports 3x per week, including swimming, dance and PE

No formal PE in reception but they do various things like dance, sports day, yoga, activities just not formal PE. That will start year 1 twice per week. Swimming once per week summer term only.

• club until 4.30 every day, things like art or sports

clubs start in year 1, I think there are approx 10-15 to choose from, languages, LEGO, art, hockey, football etc. they run till 4.15 or 4.30 I think.

• after school care til 5.35 if you want it. Colouring etc

Before and after school clubs till 6 with crafts, table football, games, light tea (or breakfast) etc. approx £9-14 depending on length of session.

• a lot of contact with the teacher. If I ever have a question I can email her and she replies within a day, or can meet with her, or she will proactively email me to check something or make an observation (eg she wrote to suggest he might be ambidextrous)

we haven’t been very proactive in contacting the teacher as we’ve had no issues but I know you can speak to her on pick up or email. Not sure how quick she can respond though.

• lots of outside space so the children help occasionally in the vegetable garden etc

same, big field with shady areas and astroturf pitch, big sandpit and climbing wall, forest school woodland, tarmac playground with climbing area (with squishy base under) and other areas. They’re doing OPAL, an initiative to improve play times with extra equipment, ride on things etc.

• good quality food, cooked on site

food seems decent and homemade although they do have fish fingers once a week. Option to have pasta bar/jacket potato/sandwich also and a veggie and meat hot option.

• 3 school trips this year

Day trips? We’ve had a farm park trip and a museum trip. Also various visits according to topic - a farmer with tractor, firefighters and truck, mounted police and 2 horses. A few other parents have gone in to talk about their job (dentist, pilot etc).

I think it’s down to luck and the area you live in but I’m super happy with the school and wouldn’t want to pay for private unless I really felt it provided something massively extra or was necessary for that particular child. I went to private school all through and had a good experience but can see that my dd and DS (currently at state secondary) are getting something that I didn’t have which is more parental support, more independence (go on the bus, have local friends in DS’s case) etc.

I'm amazed all these people saying can get same at state! I've taught 15 years across different counties and most of those things are not the norm! Most of the classes i have taught recently have 30 (or more) kids in. Current school is first one in ten years i've had a full time TA (stretched between 3 SEND chn who really need a 1:1 but have been allocated 2 hours of funding a day each). 1/3 of my class has an SEN or mental health need. Clubs run til 4:15 or you pay for after school club. Stay at private!

We do state + top up (inc some extra tuition for KS2). We manage by one parent being very part time.

Our state primary has all of these except -

8:45 start
Class of 22 not 12 (but does have a teacher and a TA)
After school club runs until 6:30 not 5:30

30 kids in a class is the norm, disrupting pupils is not always the case but can’t be ruled out because the state sector can’t pick and choose.

paper books, have them locally, also plenty of school trips, Forest schools are popular here too, clubs daily you pay for ditto after school care. Sport twice a week is the norm. Food varies between schools, I sent packed lunches because i didn’t trust my dcs school. No you won’t get as much teacher contact nor 1:1 for dc in school but that can be compensated for at home. 93% of dc are state educated and many do very well

You could hire an after school nanny to ferry the kids to extra curriculars/swimming etc if you wanted to for a lot less than private school

Same.

State never delivered what we got/get at public school. Which is fair.

We left England at Christmas after nearly 20 years to get a better work/life balance and a better school for 3rd child. We have dual citizenships and can re/settle under EU-rules.

Dc3 attends an good international private school for 20% of UK prices.

State schools around us were dire - hard working good teachers but so many disruptive (and violent) SEN children.
And it wasn't a particular bad area.

Sounds identical to our local state primary - every single point you’ve mentioned is the same EXCEPT the big one which is staff ratio. We have one teacher and one TA for 30 kids

Our school starts at 8.30 with families being greeted by the head or deputy at the gate. We have weekly swim lessons April to October in an outdoor pool for the whole school. Also weekly forest school in reception, fortnightly for the older years. Class size of up to 30 but can be as low as 20. Teacher response can be a few days but often very quick. Use actual books to read and do pe twice a week. After school clubs until 4.30 - football, dance, martial arts, lego club, cookery club, multi sports and others. After school care until 5.30. Trips are twice a year including residential in year 6. Level of disruption depends on the class, the size, the pupils and the teacher. Lovely food cooked fresh onsite
I would say I get most things on your list and what I don’t isn’t worth paying for

I think there is an assumption that "good area" necessarily equals good schools which you make here

My kids school, I expect would be looked down on by many here - it is over 50% pupil premium. I think many would be snobby about it.

But it's used that pupil premium money in part to create a special place in the school for those children with SEND who can't cope in the classroom for a full day. They go there mostly in the afternoon for sensory activities which helps regulate them and helps them to learn but also massively reduces disruption in the classroom for the other kids.

My DC get all of that besides the small class sizes at state primary. They even swim weekly throughout KS2.

We both work full time 8-5 and the DC also do extra-curriculars. Often take them straight from school. No extra curriculars on Saturday though. That's family time.

Most likely, yes. My though was we were in an ok nice area with educated parents. The engaged parents often went private.

A lot of parents in our state really didn't engage with school/their children and of course it's a generalisation. Maybe too busy with work. Some blind for SEN needs.
Some children with another mothertongue than English having a hard time.

This thread is way different from what
parents usually tell from their state schools on MN. Which of course is great.

My husband is a secondary school teacher
and would say you are right in your remarks.

I think something for you to think about would be whether you can send all your kids to private school. If your doubting the cost now then how are you going to feel when all your kids attend?

State schools really can vary, my DD goes to a state school as there aren't really any private ones I liked in our area and I don't want her to board. I am looking at options for private secondary schools though but I'm not sure if it would be right for her as she adores all her friends.

Yes - sounds very similar to most of the Primary Schools in our surrounding villages.

This is pretty much the same as my son’s infant school in a naice area in Surrey. The key difference is 30 kids in a class and two full time TAs. There’s also interventions before school for phonics and handwriting and also A LOT of extra curricular activities (music lessons, rocksteady band, theatre club, sports clubs, the list goes on). We pay for the school through the cost of housing though, and extras via funding by the PTA.

I have worked in both private and state secondaries and honestly don’t think it’s worth the money unless the schools in the area are woefully unsuitable. What worries me is the number of unqualified teachers in private who are ill-equipped to teach. Shockingly bad teaching in the school I was head of department in from ‘Drs’ and oxbridge graduates. There’s also a lack of scrutiny from ofsted (because they aren’t inspected in the same way) so a lot of things go unchecked, even by ISI or other inspectorates. In the end it very much depends on the school whatever the case.

Yes, all those things happen and are available at my twins’ state school. The only difference is they are in a class of 19.

You could get most of that, but not all from a state school. You would need to add in other services, which come with their own costs. Could probably get it for less, but you are paying for the convenience of it being all in one place.

8.20am start - you would need to book breakfast club

senior teacher always waiting by the gate to greet each child by name - the headteacher at DD's state primary does this

writing, maths, phonics etc in his class of 12 children that has 1 teacher and part time TA - groups would be bigger in state, you could maybe hire a tutor for extra lessons outside school to compensate

No disruption - luck of the draw but far from garenteed

forest school once per week - DD's state school did this

Read with actual paper books! No tablets - plenty of schools do this

The teacher or TA reads with him most days - more likely to be a volunteer parent, plus you can listen to hin at home

sports 3x per week, including swimming, dance and PE, club until 4.30 every day, things like art or sports - you would need to look at out of school clubs and classes, my kids do all this but not at school

after school care til 5.35 if you want it - afterschool club would do this for additional charge

a lot of contact with the teacher - any emails I've sent have alway been replied to, but more likely to ask thing at pickup then email me

lots of outside space so the children help occasionally in the vegetable garden - depends on school, but plenty have this

good quality food, cooked on site - most state school lunch is terrible, but you could always send a packed lunch

school trips 3x year - about the same, but mostly to local national trust place or free museum.