To think when the state pension is removed, the social contract is broken?

[JulyJulyNovember]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

It seems likely that in due course, the universal state pension will be withdrawn. At this point, I don’t see how there will be any incentive for young people to build wealth here.

I don’t think poor pensioners should be homeless, but I don’t think they should be provided for in large, unsuitable council houses or in nursing homes where places cost thousands a week. We are moving to a more individualistic world.

Do you assume that everyone in the SE is a higher than average earner then , nurses , bin men etc earn the same in the SE as in the NE . Is your suggestion that everyone down south moves

I continue to pay the tax due on my income in retirement. It ain't riches. But it would be difficult to make ends meet if the politicians were to determine that I was the easy target.

As long as wages increase yo align with private sector too...

I worked for a LA, not as a teacher and they did not contribute 28%

No. I don't. But there are many public sector jobs with national standard pay scales. It's why Cornwall which is mostly fairly poor and low paid doesn't struggle to get teachers. If you know there's a national standard, then a teacher is among the highest paid people in the community in Cornwall. They earn several times as much as most people locally and they get every national pay upgrade when it happens. Doctors, nurses, teachers are well-paid on a national scale compared to most jobs in Cornwall.

Totally agree, triple lock will become double lock am sure. Then who knows. Nobody currently under the age of 58 or so should be looking at it to live on it's just a top up to your private pension.

What younger people need to be doing now is not thinking that 8% contribution will get you a liveable income on retirement the govt need to up it to 12% minimum.

If they do that, they should also increase the minimum employer contribution from 3% to at least 5, if not 6, %.

If you're already retired you're already fine. It's those yet to retire who get the shitty end of the stick - paying to support current pensioners but getting far fewer years of pension, and very likely at a much lower rate in real terms, than the people whose pensions their contributions supported.

Ten years less in retirement is likely to mean few if any years of retirement in good health - future pensioners won't be pensioners until they are actually elderly or in poor health.

No you misunderstand. I am still about 12 years away from the current state pension age. If it is pulled for an 18 year old, I would fully expect it to be pulled for someone who is 55. The statutory rules currently say there will be 10 years notice of a change.

I don't want those who are already at state pension age i.e. within those 10 years (I am not), to have that pulled from them when they haven't had the benefit of access to pensions until auto enrolment came along relatively recently.

What I was trying to point out was that pension planning is a long term thing so changing the rules of the game at a late stage is harder to handle than if you know about it far in advance. Even at the point I am now with 12 years to go, I could not save enough to cover a lost state pension between now and then. My pension saving has already been impaired by not having a pension until long after I started work.

I am not trying to pit my generation against younger generations but trying to support an older generation (of which I am not yet one, but will be all too soon) that can't just go back to work. For those close to 67 now I don't think it is fair to pull state pension as they can't try to generate enough to cover it now. They also had a limited period where they had access to auto enrolment.

No. It's an aging population.

Are you a net contributor?

Which has nothing to do with my original statement that 60k is not a high salary in some areas .

Couldn't be bothered or couldn't afford to? My private pension is going to be worth fuck all, but we're also paying for pretty much everything from my pay of £1,500 a month, while my husband tries to earn enough to cover car costs and cares for our autistic DS.

Except that antihypertensives can reduce the risk of stokes. Strokes being one of the biggest causes of infirmity in the UK, oh and well managed BP reduces the risk of dementia too.

It’s not straightforward, though I get (and agree with) your general point.

But those younger also can’t cover it. I’m late 30s and my generation are still paying off student loans. We’ve got student loans, high childcare costs, high rent or mortgage costs, high energy and other bills and now also need high pension contribution amounts. Something has to give, my generation and Gen Z can’t continue to pay everything and then need to cover more tax’s that are needed and then extra pension costs to cover loss of state pension too.

What happens to the money given to people who die before reaching retirement age?

What would stop people making use of this money in their life? You can see the headlines when these newborns are 25 complaining that they have this pot of money for their retirement but they can't afford housing

What we need is government doing this though. The government know how many children that are born but then seem surprised when these children go to primary school and ensuring that there are sufficient school places and teachers. We know how many people are 57 and therefore how much money will be required in 10 years time to cover pension costs but do governments give that much thought about where that money will come from? They don't, that will be a different governments problem.

I’m already 80, take a small dose of meds for high BP, which keeps it under control, and it is well controlled. I don’t think we can decide too much in advance when we’d be ready to opt out. I have friends of a similar age, we meet at exercise classes a few times most weeks, we drive, and generally enjoy life.

Exactly!
My grandad got to 87 and said he would have pulled the plug at 75 if it was an option. He had loads of things going on though, and spent his life sat in a chair.
And then my DM has a friend the same age now who is very active, lots of friends and activities, and a real zest for life.

Its not a pot of gold, its just enough to live on. I have two other pensions as well as my state pension without which I would struggle. Worked 50 years and didn't get the maximum on retirement.

I agree re the social contract
I know i earn well ( not mega but good) and therefore I expect to pay tax as I have relatively broad shoulders etc. For example given covid, col crisis etc. I genuinely feel this is fair, whilst also being mindful of how those taxes are spent
But it is another thing to move the goal posts extensively once an individual has retired or is nearly about to do so. That's not reasonable
There are other things that can be done to rebalance given the aging population like removing triple lock, Inheritance thresholds, not leaving larger council properties under occupied etc

This, but of course all we’re
getting is the “but societal contract” “greater good” you should want to keep paying higher and higher tax and outgoings and be pleased that you are.. even though we know that there are those who just take and take, yet are ones on the gateway benefits and will never ever have to take personal responsibility for their lives

I know lots of people who are 80 and over who are not anywhere near infirm or living with dementia, in fact I am expecting my almost 82 year old neighbour will call on me later to see if I want to go walking. You are being a little ridiculous, 75 is not "old" these days for most people and turning down antibiotics or antihypertensives at that age is just stupid. My 77 year old neighbour still works full time in a very manual job.

It won't be removed, it will just become a means-tested benefit that you are eligible to over a certain age.

Also. The social contract has been dead for a while now - the young generation know this very well... its only the older folks who still hold it as an ideal. At the very latest, you could say that the response to Covid, which (rightly or wrongly) prioritized the health of the elderly over the education, wellbeing, wealth, careers etc. of the young, as the final nail in the coffin.

We should (and do) have the option to end our life if we choose. Not everyone has a good quality of life. Even if you reach your 80/90s with good health, sometimes you just have had enough of living!!!!

YABU. Of course it won’t be withdrawn - people would starve.

If there comes a time when there’s no more money, what then?